Classes locked to expansions is bad for TLP players

Yes, the class armor was dropping on Aradune/Rizlona in classic in the planes.

You're probably right about the problems with itemization and epics.

I can forgo not having the BST epic in Kunark.

The argument about epics not being available is not really a big deal imo. Players still have some level of agency. If this is a problem for them, they can wait to play these classes until the epics are available, and nothing would be different for them than is what is currently in place. If people don't mind not having these items available immediately, they can start with their preferred class and avoid rerolling in the future. Nobody loses here.

I agree. I think adding a pop-up during class selection stating the limitations would suffice. If people decide to roll anyways, they will know what they'll have to live with for a couple of months. Most items have them included from the start already.

There havent stated if gnome or halfling combos are going to be available. If they're not despite the ruleset it's clearly and obvious attempt to squeeze more money out of players for race change pots. I'm not playing on this server if they arent there on day one. I'm sick of this.

I cannot speak for BSKs but as a BST main who plays TLPs, you are absolutely wrong. Now I do not top the parse but I fall in 4th to 10th during Luclin to PoP frequently. Also, Paragon, Savagery, and Ferocity is very helpful not counting BST pet during fights like Seru where almost all other melee is worthless.

A decision that is likely tied to the fact that there is class content that is tied to the expansions those classes got launched in such as the epic 1.0. You know as soon as they launch those classes at the start of a TLP server there will be plenty of complaints when RoK launches that they can't complete their epics until SoL/GoD. Sure there might be some who don't care about the epics and won't complain but they will still be getting complaints from others who want to get it done in "era".

They shouldn't do something because somebody's going to complain? I know you're not new to these forums, but people complain about literally every single thing the devs do. People complaining about such a small portion of the game as kunark vs luclin is not a reason not to do this.

They should release partial content because people are complaining about it? You are correct that they shouldn't do something just because someone is complaining/asking for it and that also includes the many requests to release these classes sooner.

I don't think you're actually advocating for a scenario in which the devs are just making decisions from on high, devoid of player feedback, but well played.


These requests are a way for the devs to get a pulse on what their player base thinks would be beneficial to the game. If this thread dies out or doesn't get surfaced to the devs, that's an indication that it's not a driver for their player base. My point is that "people complaining" is not a valid reason against such a change. If there are real reasons not to make beastlords and berserkers core game content, please discuss. Complainers gonna complain either way.

I am just stating a reason why devs would not want to unlock those classes earlier as it can easily be considered broken content if there are level appropriate things that they can't complete because they are locked behind other expansions. I think it is very telling that they released a level locked server with SoL and GoD already unlocked on the same server they unlocked all classes at the start for the first time. That does show they are willing to unlock those classes at the start of a sever as long as the expansions they came with are also unlocked.

I am not advocating for or against the unlock of those classes at any point on the server, rather I am just pointing out why they likely don't unlock them at the start. Just as you have people complaining that they can't play those classes at launch you will also have people complaining about the content that is locked behind SoL/GoD for those classes. If the complaints about what players can't complete isn't a good reason to launch them then the players complaints that they can't play them also isn't a good reason to launch them. In the end it is a dev decision on what they feel is best for the game and things like not being able to complete epics or other quests is part of that choice.

I think the disconnect here is that on Vaniki, those classes being unlocked is a byproduct of the fact that GoD is unlocked. They aren't independent decisions.

Truthfully, if they started launching TLPs closer to the standard formula but opening with later expansions available, say GoD start, OoW start, TSS start, that would be good enough for me. While I'd like to play berserker in classic just because of the fact that the existing itemization has never really been exercised, a later start would work just fine for my own personal interest.

The problem with Vaniki is all of the extra baggage surrounding the ruleset. I'm not interested in the changes to level cap, the changes to gear, the changes to the spell system. I'm not interested in the pace of that server. I'm advocating in favor of this change to demonstrate that even though I won't be playing on Vaniki, it's not due to the fact that those classes/expansions are available. It's completely the challenge aspect and server pace.

What a shame it would be if they were using Vaniki participation to gauge player interest in the changes requested in this thread.

BSTs and zerkers are almost completely itemized from classic to gates. In fact the devs went out of their way to remove these items from TLPs after like Phinigel. you used to see bst and berserker armor drops in fear all the time on early TLPS. same with the kunark armor. they have velious armor quests NPCs.

the only thing these classes are really missing are classic plane of sky quests.

at one point the devs really wanted the TLPS to be close to a recreation of the historic timeline of everquest. which is why they eventually decided to lock things like gnome SKs and halfling ranger/paladins to luclin. These class/race combos had full integration into the old game. trainers, spell vendors and everything.

all of this is why I dont think we will ever see a server that starts at classic with bsts and zerkers and the short race class additions. Its not they arent itemized or integrated into the early game, its that the devs would have to undo alot of the work they did to remove that integration.

They could compromise and put in the class/race combos in that already exist and just add wood elf beast with Luclin when we get Luclin and Zerkers when we get Gates.

What disconnect? I am suggesting that they did the GoD start and level lock for the purpose of letting players play Beastlords and Berserkers at launch. I am not sure what is so confusing about them starting the server at GoD so that berskers could be played at the start as that is the only reason I can see that they needed to start with that many expansions unlocked. They could have easily started out with just the original game since they are starting with level 40 and stuck to the unlocking of an expansion like they did for the post GoD expansions.

How this server is setup seems like a deliberate choice so they could have SoL/GoD open at the start for the Beastlord/Berserker class that comes with them.

Almost is the problem though as there are gaps that won't be complete until the correct expansions unlock.

It occurs to me that it's been quite a while since any dev has commented publicly on this matter. We could use an update before arguments based primarily on speculation get out of hand. Not like that ever happens on the forum.

where is the fun in that?

its not really a problem. its literally just plane of sky quests they are missing. most people are all too happy to skip that zone as it is on TLPs. They are itemized on all other old world bosses. they are itemized on weapon and armor drops from the group game across the board.

as much as id like bst/zerk to happen from classic on a server, I dont think it ever will. but it wont be because of lack of itemization in classic-planes of power zones.

I could see Classes being "expansion content" if there were a whole lot of expansions with new classes.

We have 2 out of 28 expansions that have a class as expansion content - the whole idea of classes being expansion content is frankly bogus when looked at from that perspective.
If we had half of the expansions launched so far having a new class in them & future exansions having new classes in them I could maybe buy into the classes are expansion content reasoning.

Are there itemisation & quest gaps, yes, I do not see that as being a good qualifying reason to keep them tied to their original expansions I see that as some work the devs should do to properly integrate those classes into the game.

TLP changed EQ, while some will always hold that TLP should never have happened the fact is they did & they change a lot about the game, old content has to be looked at to fix bottlenecks, problems & bugs that were largely ignored in the past and to do that a lot of the old "fix it through the next expansion cycle's content" mindset the dev team had in the past had to be moved past.

I think the ideology of classes being tied to expansions needs to be moved past by the dev team too, just like they had to move past corpse runs, hell levels, racial penalties, making the game more inclusive.