The state of monks causes a lot of problems for every other melee class in the game.

Dude started making new forum accounts now to agree with himself and grant legitimacy to his requests... sheesh. Relax kid.

I'm certainly not going to argue with you about OoW raiding relative to Kunark's or other older expansions. OoW being a great expansion, though - that's a relatively new development, and I think fueled by nostalgia just as much as the love for the simplistic Classic/Kunark game.

Focusing more narrowly would help in this discussion, I think. Monks are definitely not oppressively overpowered, relative to other DPS classes, in Luclin or beyond. I would argue that they *are* oppressive in classic, and probably remain that way in Kunark; rogues making up the gap when they get their epic isn't enough in my view to overlook the rogue experience until that weapon comes online. If DPG is going to continue doing TLPs with short Classic eras and/or fast unlocks, that matters a lot less. If they're going to go back to slow servers, it matters more.

I wouldn't say that. You can look at all types of threads asking favorite expansions and OOW is almost consistently listed as one of the most enjoyed expansions. CoA was considered one of the best end game zones ever made. People loved the 1.5/2.0s. MPG trials for both group and raids were enjoyed by many. Lots of people liked RSS.

Quick example: This thread from four years ago. Multiple people speaking about OOW and how good it was. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-are-your-favorite-expansions.244423/

Homie says monks are OP but can't explain why. All he does is link the fist dmg table without understanding that monks just going unarmed are going to be doing sub par damage through all eras. Monks just using epic in Kunark will be passable, but they'll fall way behind in Velious just like everyone else still using their epic.

The group game is dominated by charm pets and mages. Monks certainly aren't OP there.

In raids on Aradune I've seen it be a fairly even mix of Wizards/Necros/Monks with the occasional rogue. I feel like Mages could be competitive if it wasn't for MOTM transferring all the pet aggro to them with no way to drop it. Heck, on the overall clear including bosses + trash Rogues are often #1 on a raid night Kunark and beyond if they're discing properly.

During Luclin Monks actually become a B or C tier DPS until PoP comes out and gives them Speed Focus. Wizards/Necros/SKs/Rogues/Rangers all consistently out parse monks in Luclin.

The only advantage to monks is that outside of Luclin, they're never really bad. They're generally a top 4 dps throughout the eras. I don't think that constitutes being "OP". They're just a consistently decent class and that's fine.

If the devs are going to spend any time looking at balance issues on the TLP, it should be the 70s era which just *decimates* the caster population. The 70s era is like 7 or 9 months of casters being straight up unable to land spells. It needs fixing.

Monks aren't OP, rogues are just terrible

On the other hand:

https://www.firesofheaven.org/threads/death-of-a-game-everquest-franchise.10482/post-2650236

It's not easy to find things from when Omens was current content. Of the first twenty guilds to clear Anguish, only Triton, Echoes in Eternity and Township Rebellion are still around in EQ. Triality used to have functional forums, but those are gone, as are many of the class sites, and many of those that are still around have lost their archives - Druid's Grove, for one, Steel Warrior for another. Ranger's Glade has gone through at least four reboots, all of which are gone. And, of course, the old Sony forums. Fires of Heaven is about the only old source left, and they had their mass exodus before Omens.

I thought it was pretty self-explanatory. Monk fists are so good that they don't even replace them until the end of Luclin.

Think of how insane that is. 20 years ago if a Monk got a Tranquil Staff it was a legendary feat. What happened? Did the Tranquil Staff suddenly become bad? Or is it simply that Monk fists are just that good?

It's hard to argue that Monks are fine, and that Rogues, Rangers, Bards, Warriors etc. are just bad. All of those classes are fine. The problem is that Monks essentially have access to high-end Luclin era weapons in Classic, Kunark, and Velious, while the other classes are fawning over items like this:





Is the solution to buff every Classic, Kunark, and Velious weapon so that they have weapon ratios that are similar to high-end Luclin loot? Or is the solution to return Monks to having 14/26 fists, and also make them reliant on weapon upgrades like they always were in the past?

Monks should get excited about Tranquil Staffs, Ton Po's Bo Stick of Understanding, and Imbued Fighters Staffs. These items are hard to acquire and were designed to have the best ratios in the entire game for their respective genres. They should not be obsolete and irrelevant items -- they are better than every single item that other classes are forced to use, and they STILL aren't good enough to replace Monk fists.

I leave you with this:

not sure where this revisionist history about omens of war being a bad expansion is from. Omens was always well received by the people that played it. it is especially well received on TLPs, even if its faceroll easy now. I was in Triton at the time, everyone liked it alot as I recall.

wonder how many times people have to tell this guy that monks use weapons for the best dps at almost all stages of the game before he busts out some kinda pie chart about 21/38

This is the TLP forum. If you want to discuss live then I suggest you do so in general discussion forum

monks use weapons on TLP, as has been stated numerous times here. wheres mah pie chart?

In Planes of Power. The mass exodus of Aradune shows the popularity of TLP in that era and beyond. This thread pretty clearly states the relevant time period for discussion and multiple times at that.

in classic. in velious. in luclin. all have weapon options that are better than dual wielding bare fists. perhaps kunark, but at best kunark is the only expansion they use barefists, and even then they have to get their epic to be better than available weapons

Cut to 6 weeks from now, when OP admits to rolling a monk, and complaining he can't beat any rogues on parses.

Oh and what weapons do monks use in classic? Gauntlets of the Fiery Might? But you just said they use bare fists in Kunark, so what happened to the weapons they used in classic?? Those poor monks, being forced to use bare fists because Tranquil Staffs, despite being one of the best weapons in the entire game for their respective time period, still don’t hold a candle to Monk fists. Insane and hard to justify.

So what weapon do monks use in Velious? What weapon do monks get that comes close to 23/26 fists? I’m very curious.

Find me a single parse where a Rogue even comes close to Monk DPS in Kunark or Velious.

Why does the game need to be balanced? This isn't a game where balance is needed. Some classes do some things better than other classes. Take your need for balance to the pvp games that need things to be balanced. EQ doesn't need to be balanced. Classes are fine the way they are right now.

I suggest you go to the linked thread below and read through it.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...r-every-other-melee-class-in-the-game.275301/

Wow, this really opened my eyes. I agree. Monk should be the only viable melee DPS in the game. I don’t even know why they put non-monk loot in the game. It’s so much more fun to play a game with nothing but Monks, Clerics and Enchanters because then you don’t have to worry about being confused or waste time trying to figure out what kind of elf you are looking at.

Hyperbole