with 4k+ dps, AoW doesn't drop below 100%.

To be fair, they claimed to be the authority on whether a mob is or isn't unkillable, so I think if you make that claim you should be able to produce a parse for both dev and peer review.

I was in the TFM component of LoZ so no I wasn't around for bee discussions. Don't take my disdain for FI personally - you were the one officer who didn't stab Memry in the back and I respect that.

Think about the population from a raider perspective. Phinigel has over 15 raid guilds with probably 1500 active raiders. Ragefire has 500-600 between DW and Tempus. Lockjaw has what? 200 between FI and DHS? Just at the top end LJ has 9% of the raider population. If you include the sub-55 crowd that number only goes down.

I haven't seen a parse, no-one has posted on the guild forum, but I'm willing to believe the 4k dps was an exaggeration, but that the actual dps was probably well over 3k, at least in spikes.

Regardless of the actual figure, does anyone really think that a well geared, full raid should be wailing on any mob in Velious (ie with no special bane or script requirements) without the mob's HP dropping even slightly?

TIL a lot of people don't actually know what dps means

If you're going to make a dig at people, you need to be less cryptic. I have no idea what you mean by this, or who you're talking about. (Though I assume from timing that you might be including me in it).

No clue, just was quoted to me that they were doing that, but not the method.

Two guesses though:
1) Rezzing in people.
2) Building up zone pop right next to the max, then mass picking in a short timeframe before the /pick count updates.

The first of these doesn't work reliably. People can be rezzed in to another pick from their rezzes because of zone caps.

2 is closer, though not exactly. But such methods are hit and miss, you don't always get the right people in. I have seen 103 people in Kael (where the cap seems to be about 80), but not much more than that. And if you don't get the people you need in, you are stuffed.

You really are up yourself, why would they care what you say?

We don't have a parse? Can stop all the bed wetting now?

Probably not... Onto the next one....

Lot of "but we did 4000 damage for exactly 11 seconds on a 189 second fight" just saying.

That makes it sound like you don't know what you're talking about.
DPS is damage per second. So doing 4000 dps in spikes is perfectly possible over a long fight. I don't know whether any parsing program would register that though. I do know that Darkwind has put out 3k dps over the duration of a King Tormax kill before, though, sustained over something like 10 minutes, whatever that kill duration was.

So it's not impossible that we could do 4k for a short all-out burn over less than a minute. In fact, I'm certain the raid leader would call for that sort of burn, to see whether a few ticks of that would budge the health bar from 100%.

No I'm not an idiot. Your "spike of 4k" is what you're using to say AoW is unkillable, just like Vindi was, just like Tormax was, just like Aaryonar was...all dead now some to multiple guilds.

The only 3k parse ever shown by Darkwind was on Phara Dar not Tormax. I'm not saying they can't hit 3k. I'm saying they're not doing 4k longer than a few ticks and if any at all and claiming AoW is unkillable.

There is a reason every other guild or group of players is calling Darkwind bad. Cause they come here making ludicrous claims, and show no support.

Remember when FI was complaining about Mage Pet Walls? And, they submitted videos, parses, proof?

Where is the Darkwind video, parse, proof?

Nowhere to be seen, gone like a whisper in a blizzard.

Do you have quotes of people saying Vindi/Tormax/Aaryanar were actually unkillable?

The argument here has never been that things can't be killed. It's whether or not their difficulty is reasonable.

We get that you think we are a shitter guild. But can you stay on topic?
Are you honestly saying 4k dps, however long it lasted, shouldn't budge AoW's hp?
Do you honestly believe that the regeneration mechanic is how things should have been "Buffed", given how it works?

Again the argument is not that things cannot be killed. I'm sure an elite guild like Twisted Legion would be doing far better than we are currently, but it doesn't mean the mechanics of the fight aren't stupid.

Having geared tanks who can survive the damage done to them, clerics with enough mana, and melee's with enough resists should be far more significant in whether or not a target can be killed at this phase of the game, than DPS vs Regeneration. But this is ofcourse, imo.

I can see how a few people which came onto the forums out of frustration after Aaryonar's hps didn't really move past 99% during our first encounter with him would be moved to make such claims, but they aren't true. They're just based on the inexperience with certain encounters and the frustration associated with the unintended state of in-combat regen... that's all. Let's face it, who really wants to fight something for 1-2 hours? If I remember correctly our most recent Aaryonar kill took us just around an hour. Fights like that get boring.

Please note that many things posted here in this thread about certain raid bosses being "unkillable" are personal opinions of some people drawing from their limited experience they had at that time. Not everyone thinks about how to tweak and optimize things in order to overcome certain targets' regen etc. That's up to the Raid Leading team... and Darkwind's raid leadership has overcome several encounters that others said couldn't be done without X number of people.

As for spike damage of 4k+ dps, it's entirely possible for a short duration with a call for everyone to do a full burn. The only reason I can see that being disputed is out of ignorance. Anyone that has played this game long enough or at a high enough level knows its well within the realm of possibility, an expansion after Kunark where DW did 3k dps on Phara Dar...

That's all well and good. Until the devs fix things based on people who are inexperienced or don't understand certain encounters.

If all your guild had done was ask for the regen to be fixed. I don't think there would be an issue with anyone. But they did.... Second day knee jerk reaction with another knee jerk fix put on it a few days later.

Considering they "drastically reduced" the regeneration rather than removing it - it's quite possible the mitigation adjustment is meant to counteract the regen that was left, and not truly a "nerf".

If they're still 100 hp/s of regen more than they should be but they've got a 2-5% mitigation reduction to counteract it, is it really a nerf?

Let's not rant and rave too much about where things land until it's actually Live so people see the real numbers.

These encounters aren't broken. They're being defeated. On day 1? No of course not. But every encounter that they've claimed was unbeatable has thus far been beaten save CT and AoW to my understanding.

So all of that was a nerf. Not a fix. It was intentionally made easier thanks to crying and whining.

They're not even tuning these so that Darkwind can kill them, they're tuning it so the 50 man Phinny guilds can kill them because that segment represents 70% of the raiding TLP population. The first AoW kill on Sleeper took 55 people one week into the expansion, which happens to be roughly what most phinny guilds field on raids so it makes perfect sense to tune for that.

FI represents 5% of the end game raider population (roughly 90 out of 2100) that has had 6 months to farm BIS kunark items uncontested on what is effectively a private server. Tuning any game mechanics to suit the desires of this tiny segment of the population that exists in isolation makes absolutely no sense.

Over more than an hour in the case of the major complaints, for encounters that in the past took 10-15 min in era. Even targets that were one groupable in era in 20 min were taking 30+ with a full raid.

Do you consider something taking three to six times as long as it originally did with better gear and player knowledge to be appropriate? Because clearly MOST players don't, and clearly neither do the developers.

Perhaps things swung back too far to make it too easy - but to claim it was appropriate for the regen to be as high as it was is hilariously misguided. Hopefully Lockjaw gets the version you want as an explicit tweak, I'd be curious when you screamed "Uncle!"

Do you think for one second that the devs don't have access to their own data about these encounters? That they can't see what damage the mob is taking, if they want to? That they would rely on one guild sending them parses? That they would listen to cries of nerf in the first week just based in one guild's experiences?

If you think any of these things is true, you have zero experience with the devs in this game and how they do things. It took weeks for them to change anything about the VP key quest in response to Phinny requests, for example, and that was based upon known factors, such as spawn times, and numbers of people on the server.

So, I really doubt that people saying "X is unkillable" did anything more than make a Dev go back and look at the data they have accumulated, and thought, "Oh yes, that does seen tougher than we intended". I have no doubt that they could have looked at and thought, "It's tough, but that guild aren't putting out enough sustained dps, we'll leave it alone for now".