At times the behavior of Warriors makes me think they are the very epitome of first world problems. It's hard not to be in a way, as you've never had to give up your main raid tank role in 15+ years of Everquest, from the time there was a main raid tank role ie when people stopped just bind rushing raids. By contrast, I think every other class, except for Clerics, have sat through periods when they just weren't wanted. Even Enchanters have had to deal with raids not requiring them. Even Wizards have had to deal with having lower DPS than classes such as Rogues and Berserkers. And we best not talk about Necromancers and Mages at the moment. Regardless, I don't think you ought to worry. The idea that Warriors would ever enter into a period where Knights out tank them on raids is difficult to imagine. Even in case the current changes make it so, they're liable to change before they hit Live, because I don't think even the developers are able to imagine a world in which it is so. So rest easy and find comfort in the fact that, at the very minimum, you're not being constantly nerfed.
We already had a period like that in POP where we had to do a walk out to get the things we needed to be viable.
I don't know if you guys are just forgetting about all your other discs and aa or just playing ignorant but warriors ha e a good tool set for many situations. Just as another war in the dps under 40 thread said he had 10 bars with three pages of buttons in it, I don't think many on the forums are being honest about what a Warr is really capable of. War is still a great class to play and nothing I this patch changes that. Maybe the war community can come together and brainstormed some good stuff that their class can get now that the def prof won't be held over their heads.
Now this is nostalgic - it reminds me of Furor's 'the sky is falling because my class may not be the only viable option for all things I want to do' type posts. The 5% passive mitigation enhancement to knights is still far behind what Warriors have, as are the disciplines. SKs unquestionably should have received the Two Hander proficiency when Warriors did, as it is the very role SKs are suppose to possess, ie. the most dps centric tank; this isn't even debatable. Warriors will still out class knights in mitigation abilities, innate or activated. Warriors have lost nothing that they were suppose to have and are still kings of their role, raid tanking, moloing or what have you. The cries are only attempts to stifle another class out of pure greed.
Possible outcomes if that's the course of action Warriors choose. 1. Daybreak caves into Warrior demands they are the most uber tank and agro machines in the game. 2. Warriors Stop being one dimensional and request / receive some utility, not likely but it could happen we know they will ask, no demand more agro and higher mitigation tanking disks. 3. Daybreak says fine go on strike and Warriors are sidelined further upgrading Knights getting more tanking ability and life goes on. 4. Its a game get over it and move on. Wonder what changes are coming next month? This whole thing seems just like when Knights were give the Bold Attacks AA increasing our agro, some said it would ruin Warrior agro. 50% passive increase sounded rather awesome until it was noted its only 50% in EQ math. Now we are seeing another round of agro increases, go figure. I'm expect once Warriors get over or give up on the Knight mitigation changes coming they will start attacking the agro change in this very same patch.
To the OP. Nothing is changing at all for the warrior class. So if you enjoy playing a warrior now and feel you can perform your role, you'll still be able to do that. Knights are getting a bump, and yes, if we have our best discs up and warriors best discs are down, we may tank better for short intermittent periods. If this sounds unfair to you, maybe you should swap to a knight. As a knight you'll be able to tank better than a warrior for a small part of the time and are willing to trade not being the top tank anymore for some utility. If you still want to absolutely be the first choice for a raid tank however, you should remain a warrior.
if by small you mean in all group content wile grouped, wile soloing and wile moloing then yes your right .but thats only 95% of the game so its not so importent. and u get to have all the utility as well seems like good balance to me. but hey u know u needed to tank them 5% of the game mobs aswell or as close to as well as us warriors so i guess its only fair you overtake us in all the other content aswell seems like good balance but we shall see im sure paladins and shadowknights will be honest about the change and call out for changed if they feel to strong (lol). all cuz man big brother can tank boss mobs it must mean we need to become better in all content an also retain self healing and leech abilitys or its not balanced. good call
I personally feel that we should have gotten a 15-20% disc for mitigation. I dont think we needed a 30%. unfortunately they didn't come ask for opinions so we are stuck with the 30% until they decide something. I also hate the idea that mantle and carapace stack with it. They may be limited in duration based on hit cap, but that makes us stronger than we should be in many instances. If they would have made def prof for knights at 15-20% with the stacking that would have moved us up to be able to tank better but without creating a perception that wars are now in dire straits, but this is the eq forums, so even a 1% increase to knights makes warriors useless! On the other side, this really doesnt take anything from warriors and this is the time to collect data with your fellow knights, because I bet many feel the way I do. There was a gap that needed to be closed, but not in that manner. Also work together and find those places you are lacking, ie quick refresh agro, dps abilities when tanking or not tanking, the second would prob get you further, and ask for them.
I have no doubt knights will be as fast to point out how silly permanent 30% mitigation is as warriors have been.
except when we got it it was 20% plus phalanx that then got taken away and rolled in to def proff and we only got it cuz u where overshadowing us in all except for when last stand was on 3 minutes and 12 seconds out of every 10 minutes.every other time u where out tanking us in form of the full package . tanking in eq isent only about mitigation only place where thats truly shines is on raid bosses. in all other content self healing is super strong and leech abilitys also and now u got both and ur ability to use your vie discs on top of it to once again becme the best total package tanks in the game i whouldent of cared to much myself if in order to gain close to our mitigation for boss mobs it whould strip u of your ability to self/leech heal wile mitigating close to warriros for boss mobs. but thats not whats happening here. ur getting 30% on top of what u alreaddy had in your tool box. and regardless how bias and untruthfull u feel like beeing there is no world where ur total package was 30% below warriors. if that was the case you whouldent be able to tank group mobs or boss adds or even some of the boss mobs ur currently able to tank
I wish there was a way to scale mitigation in the game so that when you fought something that conned an army to defeat that your skills went up. That way they could make it 10% in the group game and 30% in the raid game where self healing matters magnitudes less. Unfortunately I don't think they have figured out how to do that. Thus we have things that don't scale well from group to raid and back. I feel they did this to address some issues in the raid game, and as my only group geared tank is a war, I cannot compare what it will do to the group knights. I know with these changes the only time I will die as a raid geared tank in the group game is when I go "full " and no one should ever go "full !"
I think you have answered some of your own questions without realizing it. You're looking at sustainable tankage.....but then mention raid tanks don't cry for a swap after 3 minutes because it's too easy. A paladin wouldn't be able to survive without discs and likely wouldn't last the full time with discs in TBM raid content. I may have misunderstood your question or didn't pick up the sarcasim with the concern of raid content. But if your concern is based on group content, it's of my opinion the ability of any tank to succeed is based on an individuals play-ability and knowledge of their class, and not so much of the abilities of a class. Sucky knights in group content will not become good with any new improvements. --------------------- To the point of a different poster--- Yes, paladins do get things to boost the healing amount recieved, but most of these things have been designed to share with their group (aura), targetable (spire and group ac), or target's target (Protective Proclamation mitagation ?sp?; Steely revig). With all of that in mind, switching to a paladin MT over a war does not add these bonuses because they can be kept on a War MT already. --------------- And no, knights can not do the job of a warrior. Knights can stand in for a warrior, but are far from taking their jobs. And yes, knights do need more dps when it comes to using 2h weapons. IMO, there is very little difference between the dps of a knight with 1h vs 2h. I go months at a time without switching to 2h weapons because it's just not worth the switch for the little dps. I would rather have the shield up at all time in case a MT dies and I have to take a quick hit or two before the next tank picks up agro.
It took 5 years of talking with the community warriors and Elidroth to get us the proficiency they were not just thrown in our tool box for no reason we needed defensive proficiency especially to be useful for more than 3 mins out of every 10 minutes. Along with the aggro boost you guys really haven't needed if you knew how to play your character properly to begin with this does make warriors almost useless we'll get pity groups and pity raid tanking jobs. Schadenfreude - noun pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune. Fits you perfectly Sk already out dps both tank classes as a hybrid out dpsing your parent class when you were designed to debuff and sap power from the npc your tanking in order to gain an advantage had absolutely no bearing on doing more dps then the class that was designed to do 20% more base damage over you since the beginning of everquest which this game is looking less and less like everquest. Sojero what issues in the raid game we have knights in our mid tier guild tanking most of the same npc we are tanking so what problem are you talking about ? If knights actually play to their full potential ie healing themselves and using all their abilities while also having the support of a main tank there was no problem. And nighttops I haven't used a 2 hander in a year because I can do all but 5 k dps less with a shield too welcome to the club .
Nice way of taking something out of context and trying to make a hypothetical conversation out of nothing.
I have no doubt I'm one of the worst SK's in the raiding game. My being a bad SK however doesn't change the fact that a 30% all the time mitigation was a terrible design decision and awful for the game. It also didn't change the math that our aggro generation before the changes was over 10x less than warrior aggro and 1/2 what pally aggro was, thus the fix. It was overkill then and still is now for all classes involved. And a guy named Makavien is going to really take a shot at my name meaning a "bad guy"? I guess pallys and sk's should continue to argue with each other while you run the world.
