Extra mitigation for knights in the next patch

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Time Burner 2, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. Dre. Altoholic

    Warrior and Knight 1H weapons are itemized according to our class levels of Shield Specialist.

    Warrior Shield Specialist+65%
    7.04*1.65=11.616

    Knight Shield Specialist +25%
    9.38*1.25=11.725
  2. p2aa Augur

    You think warrior DPS is good ? Get some grip of reality, we have the lowest dps of the 3 tank classes now, all things equal being with the 3 tank classes in tank groups in raid (If you start to put warriors from tank group to dps group then what a fail)
  3. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    You misunderstood what I was trying to say...

    First, Warriors should be (might only be in my mind) the highest melee DPS of the three tank classes. The other two have spells to help offset that.

    With the stance fixes, is it easier for the warriors that aren't the current main tank to use DW / 2H stances and switch back to DP if/when they are needed to tank. If so, how much of a difference and whether or not it's enough. Is the stacking with things 'fixed' with the new weapon stances?

    Example - you have 5 Warriors show up for Vim and Vigor and 4 knights
    Warriors 1,2,3,4 are all sword and board with DP and 2 each as MT / Backup Tank for each mob
    Warrior 5 is using 2H stance until one or more of the others dies and he switches over to get ready to tank. Is his DPS now at all comparable / better than what the knights are able to do (with the same type of ADPS support) while they are in 2H stance? If the Warrior DPS is better than the knights now, is it better by enough, subjective as that might be? If not, shouldn't it be?

    I wasn't trying to say that the 'extra' warriors would be put into a DPS group. I agree, that would be silly.

    I'm mostly interested in how well the following changes 'fix' things for Warriors:
    • Made the following adjustments to the Weapon Stances offered by the AA ability Combat Proficiency:
      • The abilities 2-Handed Weapon Proficiency, Dual-Wielded Weapon Proficiency, and Defensive Proficiency have been removed and are now defunct. You will need to set up new hotkeys for Combat Proficiency.
      • The base ability Combat Proficiency has been renamed Weapon Stances and has been changed to a toggled AA ability similar to Bold Attacks.
      • Enabling Weapon Stances will allow your weapon configuration to determine which stance buff to apply.
      • Changing the weapons in your primary and secondary slots will now automatically apply the correct stance buff.
      • Disabling Weapon Stances will remove any active stance buff.
      • Adjusted the spell stacking of the three stance buffs to reduce conflicts with other spells. The primary impact of this change is that activating a defensive ability will no longer cause Defensive Proficiency to be removed.
    Koryu likes this.
  4. mackal Augur

    The underlined point simply means that after last stand fades, you won't have to reapply the buff, since that would require unequipping your shield and reequipping it. It does not cause the affects to stack, just the buffs.
  5. Dre. Altoholic

    DPS wise, it will be very difficult for Warriors to compete now. Vanilla melee DPS (autoattack vs parse dummy) will be extremely close after today's patch.

    Even before today's changes, Knights tended to parse comfortably ahead of Warriors when spells, ADPS and activated abilities are added.

    In addition, a large portion of Warrior burst DPS comes from Heroic Blade, which loses significant power with the stance changes (SS+2H prof can no longer be stacked).
    The most relevant item here is Flash of Anger (transitional tool) does not function when 2H proficiency is active. This is well documented, and not addressed by the patch.
    Mayfaire and Koryu like this.
  6. mackal Augur


    Just make your hot button activate your tanking bandolier and cast flash of anger
  7. Dre. Altoholic

    I'd like to see the stacking fixed. This is exactly the type of issue they are trying to address. (QoL fixes not dependent on clunky workarounds)

    Thanks for your suggestion, though. It will be filed appropriately.
  8. Lianeb Augur

    I thought Knights couldn't heal against raid mobs? or that it didn't matter
  9. sojero One hit wonder


    We can't, all life taps and pally heals are disabled against any mob that cons "army to defeat." Kind of like swift dots, but way more detrimental.

    Oh and that stream your sticking your toe in is deeper than it looks :)
  10. Lianeb Augur

    There are a few very short term discs that a warrior can use while in 2h stance or even sword and board. But a warrior that goes full DPS locks out some defensive skills also. Most notably Last Stand
  11. Xanathol Augur

    If you mean 'only slightly' compared to an SK, ok, but otherwise that is a flawed argument and what was just corrected, thankfully, with knight 2her prof. SKs are by definition the 'dps tank' - you don't add necro like ability or spells for anything else. If Warrior melee is measurably greater than SK melee, then SK spell damage has to first make up that gap, then go further by a meaningful margin to accomplish the 'dps tank' label. If you check SK dps spells and compare them to Necro's, they are in a comfortable position base damage wise (Necro AAs, etc, make a big difference). Even besides potentially encroaching on Necro spells, if SK spell dps was pushed that far up, that would change the class from a 'tank with dps spells' to a 'dps caster that tanks', which is just... wrong. Traditionally, Warriors have had a small melee lead on SK melee, with the gap typically closed via SK only procs. From there, dps spells & a pet distinguish SK dps from Warrior dps. When 2her prof was given to Warriors, this balance was broke - today, as knights gained 2her prof, it has been addressed.
  12. Dre. Altoholic

    As discussed in other threads, please post opinions as such, rather than implying they are facts.
    Brohg likes this.
  13. Xanathol Augur

    What I stated is certainly fact - your wishing otherwise means nothing.
  14. Dre. Altoholic

    Quite the contrary. If SK's were actually intended to be the "DPS tanks", I'd find that to be a promising and unique role, full of great possibilities and a better approach to balancing (both within tanks and between tanks and dps) than we have today.

    Do believe me when say that I feel it's unfortunate this is not the reality.
  15. Dre. Altoholic

    Loaded up one of my Pally alts. The picture below represents my subjective feedback of the changes:

    [IMG]

    I was deliberately training myself with larger and larger pulls of undead that could previously kill me even with cooldowns and spamming self-healing. Today I mostly just pressed attack.

    After effortlessly whittling these trains down to a couple mobs i switched to dat 2h and....

    [IMG]

    Slay is mega deeps now. And I'm not even mad.
  16. Zaknaffein Augur

    I am amazed at the level of stupidity from a majority of SK's who post here.
  17. Kamea Augur

    Actually, the reuse timer wasn't the main reason. LS strips stances anyways, it doesn't matter if the refresh timer isn't up. Nevermind the fact you can just put up DW or 2H before the event begins. The main reason was getting hit by a boss with a 2H or DW up.

    Here's something you don't realize. This change was a sizable nerf to our burn DPS. Our burn DPS was heavily based around stacking 2H stance + S&B + 2H non-weapon hits (AA's, discs), but that combo will no longer be possible. So bye to ~20% of our burn DPS. Without heavy aDPS (aka realistic raid situations for tanks) wars were already the lowest DPS tank on burns.