Test Update 02/10/16

But phalanx was parsed and shown to stack, that is why Elidroth removed it from it.

Is there a reason for the HUGE discrepancy in how SK aggro abilities were adjusted as compared to pally abilities?

Before this change our single hate spell was about the same as one of the two pally ones. Now we are 30% behind again? Didn't we just go through fixing this exact same thing?

SK primary hate spell:
[43609/13606] Terror of Narus Rk. III
Classes: SHD/101
Hate: 8629
Hate: 13410
1: Increase Hate by 1
Text: Your mind turns to thoughts of terror.

Pally primary hate spells:
[43330/10627] Crush of the Darkened Sea Rk. III
Classes: PAL/102
Hate: 8736
Hate: 17472

[43405/10628] Crush of Povar Rk. III
Classes: PAL/105
Hate: 6798
Hate: 13596

I get pallys always get more. But to go from a less than 2% advantage to a 30% advantage seems way, way, way off?

That before even getting into the that's all our spell is, hate vs a small nuke.

Wow it seems all non-SK aggro was doubled, but SK only got 1.5x. Maybe they took recast into account or something?

I believe that they just put the pally one where it was actually was before, and gave us a boost. Also the one you quoted has a way longer recast time. Pally cruses have always given more agro than what they were showing. I don't think this really changed anything.

You just don't want to admit that Unholy Guardian was never enough for Knights to replace Warriors as main raid tanks. That hasn't changed.

Learn to read. The difference was from this thread: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...st-server-pet-mitigation-parse-thread.212579/. Read it in full and see what the difference was BEFORE Elidroth gave you http://spells.eqresource.com/spells.php?id=41088&source=test

9% and a minute less.

Have fun doing it with the new changes. I thought you knew what Warrior abilities did, considering this is a copy?

This argument is easy to make, because your abilities are instant, and Knights' are not, and that makes a difference, and not just with ten monsters. Spells have all sorts of issues and not getting through a spell at the wrong time = dead Knight/player. Warriors don't have to deal with this at all and yet act as though Knights never fail to heal themselves, never fail to cast an aggro spell, etc.

Also, why do you keep using 46% as Knight max with a Cleric, and then 45% as Warrior max, and forget that Warriors get up to 55% with a Cleric?

This is my last post before there's so much facepalm on your posts I just can't take it.

1) I don't want to admit what? You're just not grasping my point. Using mantle/carapace + prof until they face. Switch to Guardian + SB and you're maintaing a minimum of 46% for longer than the 3 minutes LS lasts. I did some quick math. If a mob averages 50k a hit each hit than mantle will last roughtly 80 hits. Lets say you never avoid a single hit and he quads each time. 4 hits per round and unslowed mob hit rounds are roughly every 2 seconds. Mantle will last somewhere in the range of 40 seconds if you're hit every.single.time. We all know this isn't the case so more than likely it's lasting the whole time.

We're also not mentioning the mitigation order. I believe that prof will be calculated first. Then mantle will be calculated. I'm not sure about this as I'd have to test again (very easy for me to do). But if this is the case, mantle will mitigation less per hit, allowing it to last longer.

If we didn't use our secondary stuff, which has a much longer reuse than yours, then maybe we'd be slightly better.

Let's not forget you also have secondary stuff. Repel, Proclamation, Vizat's Skin, etc. I don't know your AA's well I admit but your discs are good.

It doesn't take much analytical thought to figure out a disc rotation. Something you're clearing missing. You look at base times and don't take in account how you can use them and in what ways. Fortunately, you have me to do that for you. A person who's always trying to twist my discs different to see what works vs what doesn't.

2) Learn to read what? You posted a link of prof originally. Check yourself. Now you're posting a link of warrior mitigation while in proficiency compared to knights without it (Look at the post date It's month after proficiencies were put in place and the numbers match exactly what proficiency would mitigated compared to knight damage vs war damage). How is this talking about armor? Again, stay on topic.

3) Your mitigation discs are instant. Pally heals are sub 1 second casts. I don't know SK taps, too lazy to look it up. Either way, you're over exaggerating a lot, especially now when you have warrior-like mitigation.

We can argue the numbers all day long.

There isn't a competent Knight in EQ that doesn't think they just got delivered God Mode.

Spell drawbacks? How about you start enumerating those, and assigning them magnitudes, and we'll see how long it takes for you to stack them up against "can't tank an anything without a healer".

But Lianeb I was a god before! I can now just prove it.

Haven't seen anything that hit test in the last few years not go live but here goes. Begging you guys not to push this live with this patch or your going to cripple raid necros until you figure out you went way to far with this.

If you took issue with necro burst recently that was entirely from Manaburn being redonkulous. During peak burn casters can get 300-500K damage added to a spell for each counter of manaburn used because its bonus is both focusable and modified by crit mods. The difference for necros was this meant we could eat 5, 10, 20 counters in a single tick compared to nukers who might cast 1 or 2 spells in that time frame, which resulted in insane boosts to dps and total damage done purely because of manaburn.

TL;DR Manaburn was broken from the start so removing it from necros solves any issues further nerfs are going to break the class.

No idea why warriors are so up in arms.

NOTHING changed at all as far as raid tanking goes. Under disc things are EXACTLY the same.

The only change here for raiding is during long events knights now have the ability to tank more on par with warriors.

For boss tanking this literally changes NOTHING.

Its a perception. A lack of Utility on their end doesn't help either from the vocal handful and the sky is falling rhetoric.

Allow me to visually explain the thought process:


While I doubt this will actually be the case, the current balance (in their favor) is going to swing back our way (like it was before proficiencies and dickbleed were added) and will probably need more tuning, imo.

They don't mitigate the same %, first of all, and maintaining 40-46% - let's just say - for 3.5 minutes is still worse than maintaining 55% for 3 minutes.

You have Pain Doesn't Hurt, which by itself, out performs all of those abilities in practice because it's a flat damage off every hit, as opposed to an ability that you have to time, else random in the case of skin.

Read the thread. The DPS difference is without that extra 30%.

Spells aren't just weak to interrupt. They also just don't go off at times, and as much of the heals both Shadow Knights and Paladins get are from critical heals, they're subject to random. Warriors don't have this problem. They are reliable. That is why they are the best tanks and are going to remain the best tanks. I don't know about you, but the changes didn't make me want to replace my Warrior at all. In fact I'm pretty sure it is still the best tank class in both group and raid for challenging content, though now Knights are a valid choice.

I am still unable to log into Test. I have even tried running as Administrator and i get this-

There was an error completing your request. Please try again.

Fixed that for you there.

A Warrior only brings tanking to raids. Now you have Knights bringing tanking AND their utility to raids. Downplay your utility all you want...guess what in the end you still have it. In the end of this guess what a Warrior gets? Best in game mitigation (read as a few % in 3 out of 10 min) and 0 utility, oh and laughable DPS.

I think the best part of this change is going to watch Knights die to the 2h stance, that they argued were OPd back when Warriors got it. My answer to them, same as they gave us....react faster

What utility does Shadow Knights bring to raids again?

I also don't think you heard me when I said that Warriors are still the best tanks.

And it's funny, you know, reading this amount of "rage" from Warriors when they weren't even nerfed. All the changes did was to bring two other classes into your exclusive group of "god classes." All the while Necromancers took three nerfs in the *** and Mages lose hope on the pet aggro changes ever being taken back.

THOSE are the classes who ought to be crying the hardest.

Instead we get Warriors "WHY AM I NO LONGER THE ONLY GOD".

uh, except that they actually can react faster, since they're getting the stance only after it's fixed to be automatic with bandoliering and has no 30s cooldown, sure