Can only DPS at about 40% of normal with new pet aggro changes

Battleaxe, why do I not see any hatred towards monks? They tank for groups, have higher dps than warriors, and can tank names. They even have some beneficial dispel and can split pull well.

Your hatred for magicians is overboard.

The purpose of this thread is to inform the developers that they broke our class via the solo game and nothing more.

If you check every post I have ever made you will find that I have never ever once called for another class's abilities to be nerfed.

I have always posted that other classes abilities in fact warrior's tanking abilities be notched up a bit.

When i posted the current mage class description taken from screenshots on 1/29/2016 I did so because one person posted that mages should not be able to do something that they have been able to do for the last 10+ years. (a class calling for yet another mage nerf)

The screenshot I took of entire warrior's class description is as it exists on the character creation screen. The quotes that I made about it revolved totally around warriors NOT being designed to solo. Period. This was because said person was using the argument that a class that is designed not to be able to tank good solo, should always be able to outtank a class that is designed as it's arch type to be able to solo.

I never said anything about warriors dps.EVER.

I don't really have an opinion on it as this thread is about mages getting an unintended nerf due the aggro changed which were designed to fix an issue on the progression server.

Instead of continuing to stroke your desire for more mages nerfs, (which everyone on DB forums know you have made it your personal crusade for years), please leave us alone for once and go tank something.... in a group or raid environment.

I don't think classes that are not tanks (or their pets) should have a greater ability to tank then tanks can approach the damage a DPS class can produce.

Including Mages, Monks, Rangers, Necros, Beastlords, etc.

I realize those that would intrude on the role of tanks would selectively refer to class descriptions and list "doesn't fare well adventuring alone" and ignore "heavy damage" and "cornerstone of a good group". However with a multitude of classes (or their pets) tanking and often soloing named mobs it's cornerstone odf a group if you can find one and a HUGE Warrior vs. DPSer damage gap. The benefits have faded yet the disadvantage remains.

Group? You didn't read Warriors in this thread BOXING? You didn't read Mages confessing they were soloing/moloing like one man wreaking crews?

(Warrior) dependence can not work unless there is universal interdependence. This thread begs the restoration of something that never should have been in the first place. Several guilds protested pet tanking in raids. They should have protested pets tanking period.

The purpose of this thread is to urge developers to restore the Mage ability to tank - something they should not have had - in raids or in group content.
"Warriors are the masters of armed combat and defense, taking the point in battles and going head-to-head with the most dangerous creatures of Norrath. Warriors are a melee class with the ability to wear plate armor and wield all types of weapons.

Warriors build their strength and stamina to unheard-of levels, making them far hardier than any other class. When combined with their heavy armor and excellent defensive skills, warriors are unmatched in their ability to survive the most brutal battles. Warriors train themselves in the skills of combat, mastering the use of all weapons and tactics. Warriors also learn to taunt their opponents, making themselves the focus of all their enemies' attacks, allowing the less-resilient members of their group to remain safe from harm."

Tanking is the role of tanks.

"Magicians are master summoners, able to call elemental pets to do their bidding and to conjure useful items from thin air. Magicians are primarily a magic-using class, with the ability to wear cloth armor and wield blunt weapons and daggers.

Elements pets are at the heart of a magician's offensive strategy, and typically accompany a magician in all his adventures. This pet provides protection for its master, along with powerful attacks and special abilities. Magicians have a large selection of fire- and magic-based damage spells, allowing them to mount a damaging magical assault in support of their elemental pet."

Not the role of Enchanters, Beastlords, or Mages who have however pets that may "protect" them.

According to the Class Description, which is the quintessential source for determining what should be overpowered:



It should be noted that because we focus on "physical combat to the exclusion of all else" that we should outperform every melee class during a raid, especially when we strip off our gear.

This description also notes that "it's not unusual to see a monk adventuring alone." Monks are therefore a solo class and should be able to DPS/TANK and SOLO all current GROUP content.

If you need more evidence; I soloed a named once, so there is precedent for these matters.

Daybreak, please fix monks.



These other classes are broken, too:

Bard - "Bards do well both alone and in groups."
Beastlord - "Beastlords can adventure solo well in many places."
Druid - "well-rounded class, prospering in both solo and grouped situations."
Mage - "able to adventure solo"
Monk - "not unusual to see a monk adventuring alone."
Necro - "self-sufficient and often choose to adventure alone"
Paladin - "can sometimes work alone"
Ranger - "can hunt alone"
Shadowknight - "can use their dark powers to adventure solo"
Shaman - "well-rounded class with strong abilities both group and solo"
Wizard - "capable adventurers both solo and in groups"

They all should be able to solo 3 mobs at the same time and all group named, based on their class descriptions.

Please also fix these classes. Or delete them.

Soloing does not include tanking for a group.

Soloing does not necessarily mean standing toe to toe and duking it out. Damage the mob a lot, FD, mend, stand up before it regenerates too much, etc.

Protect definately does not mean tank. Tanking is not a caster role.

Well, I humbly suggest that you may be playing the wrong game. Because this has been a thing since day one. And, if you honestly think that a mage pet can tank as well as you can (or a monk, or a ranger, ect), in any circumstance anywhere, then all I can say is, you have to be doing something wrong. I am in no way trying to be rude, just stating what should be the obvious. If any of those you listed could tank at even 25% comparison to us, then maybe you'd have a valid point. We tank better, they dps better, all is right with the world. If you doubt me, go accidentally pull 6-8 end game mobs and you see who lives longer, you or the pet.

If you mean me, yes, I box. But I don't always box. I probably group about 50+% of the time*. And, I'll tell you, when I am lfg it doesn't take but a minute. Not saying I am special, btw, I am saying that a warrior who knows how to tank still seems to be a valuable thing in the community.

*That is, back when I logged in to play EQ. Lately I have only logged in to raid, because I have expansion-bitterness. But that is for a whole other thread entirely.

This thread is a perfect example of how the community is at each others throats. Really it's showing how child like so many of you are..

Comparing a class that isn't similar to another is very manipulative, I just want to put that out there.

Also, almost everyone agree's that the Provocative buff needs a boost when being used, yet most of you who agree with that and come here to voice it, also have to add a jab or attack..There's no call for that.

If Warriors had an issue with something specific and it was creating a bit of chaos within it's community you wouldn't see Mages ( not the respectable ones ) attacking you guys, or calling for nerfs.

Could we have a productive thread regarding Mages and stop the freaking witch hunt? No class is what a Mage is, same as no class is a Warrior, Enchanter, Bard, Ranger, Monk, Cleric, Shaman, Paladin, Shadowknight( hopefully they see some boosts cause they need it ), etc. So we need to stop trying to compare them to get a base line, that's not how it works in an RPG.

Incorrect. See the Monk AC nerf, see nuisance mobs (Drolvarg Rager, Jord Krieger) and high DB vs. high DI, alledged ability of Warriors to beat 1 mission in GoD before most knights could manage it.

Warrrios once had parent class narrrow focus advantage vs some group content and during DoN tank parity was announced. The class advantages faded (or were shared) yet the doesn't fare well adventuring alone remains.

And the sad part is not tanks who can frequently molo current content named mobs say they think this is right and just. I'm certain they know better especially with their guilds insisting pets should not co-opt the tank role in raids.

Mages probably could have a productive thread in the Caster forum (that's 4 down form the Tank forum) provided they didn't insist they should perform the Healer role in groups.

I like how you completely ignored the fact that none of them can tank even a fraction of how well we can tank. So, therefore, we can only do a fraction of their dps. But, please, do carry on with your agenda.

I see that Mages claim to be struggling with aggro. I sincerely hope these issues are addressed.

A quick note on tanks - we do have to work for aggro. As such, it's not beyond reason for a pet owner to have to similarly work at keeping aggro on their pet (probably at the cost of DPS) and maybe they have to work harder-than-that if said pet is tanking for a group and not just the owner.

Maybe that looks like Provocative Demeanor being the first in a series of abilities aimed at pet aggro. There are opportunities here for AE/Snap agro and better defensive tools for pets if we go further down the road of making pets more tanking-friendly.

When mobs are dying (including named mobs) and missions are being completed taking less damage does not equal "unmatched ability to survive". It is taking a bit less healer mana to do the same job (unless we're all soloing/moloing in which case the Primary Tank is left waaaaaaaay in the dust).

Let's keep in mind these pets were tanking raid boss mobs until SOE put a stop to it - pets are not tanks (and not by making pets more fragile). I'd call that a pretty big fraction indeed.

They do a much larger fraction of good enough tanking compared to a real tank than Warriors do of their DPS. Were it otherwise our soloablity would be similar and anyone would know that.

Class descriptions are a very generalized statement. Nowhere in there does it say Warriors tank worse when duoing or when not in a full group.
Believe it or not we do tank very well even before we get buffs and get the benefit of other classes given to us. We have an unmatched ability to survive the most brutal encounters , no where does it say that unmatched ability is taken away as soon as we are alone .
And we were never "designed to not tank good solo" our abilities can be used when alone and with any number of group or raid members.
If we were meant to not "tank" well when solo every ability to survive we have would have a group member check done and not work without the required number of people.

Just like no where in the magician's class description does it entitle you to be able to do 100% of the group content while soloing .
15 years ago you were able to solo named when they started to turn white or blue cons.
I was there I even grouped with you back then . Your pet died over and over and over and you got past that by chain casting your pets while recalling them to keep mana.

So quit trying to hyperbole to ask for unreasonable things like being able to solo most if not all group content .

Don't say anything except -
Dear Dzarn , the mage community feels the recent swing hate reduction in aggro generation was a mistake . Can we start trying to repair the damage by reverting the nerf starting out at 10 -25% . We understand fully why the change happened but, we are unsure why it affected our normal pet so drastically when they were never the issue for tanks unless we were not doing our job.

The demeanor spells also do not seem to be fulfilling the intended function since, the entire aggro change was to fix remorseless servants and neither one of them land on them . We have come up with this idea to fix this problem .
- Change both calm demeanor and provocative demeanor to a toggleable AA when either one is turned on it autocasts the buff on any pet summoned by the caster.

We also understand servants were capable of absorbing 90% of all melee damage done even in the hardest zones of the newest expansion for hours on end while in a group setting.
Allowing us to completely avoid ever having to cast heals on our real pet and allowing healing classes to focus on dps almost entirely but , it was also a very important cc tool while we are moloing or soloing and we need something to replace this ability if you are dead set on making sure this borderline exploit can no longer be used.

We also feel the earth pet is now taking too many spikes when trying to molo and having to tank 2 yellow con npcs because our servants can no longer get aggro instantly over top of them with 2 more capable of being stacked before the first 1 even dies.
Could we get an aa that allows us to reduce all damage by a flat 5% on our earth and air pets only that does not stack with shining defense since we can already tank 3 yellow cons within a group setting .
Or could we get a pet only divine intervention aa that has a fast refresh and requires a diamond to cast ?
We feel we need something to fill this void as it seems even with the arx earring our main pet did not gain enough mitigation on the power curve.

When looking at our raid dps it seems we have been stagnated in the most recent expansions .
While we understand why our rain spells were nerfed is there anyway to look at increasing the amount of damage the of Many spell lines do per # of pet when cast, while also reducing the maximum number of pets required to increase our group dps utility .
This spell is underutilized in our opinion once a set number for example 10 pets are up when this spell is cast and the of many spell critical hits could we add a buff that is given to us when those things happen reducing the cost of our next bolt of spell by 50% and increasing all pet damage on our current target by 15% for 10 seconds?

They should just merge all the classes into one uber class that can do everything. This has become a solo game. No more balancing issues, everyone's happy. Problem solved.

/end thread

I've always wanted to feel like Goku! Everyone says I have laser beams flying out my eyes and bum anyway!

1. This thread was about a named from one expansion back - and just one of them. I'll be surprised if Danille (or any mage) has been able to molo through every single named in TDS. Can I assume that you have the ability to tank every single name not only in the previous expansion but also in this current expansion?

2. If the mage accidentally gets adds, it is goodbye pet then goodbye mage. Can I assume that you can handle unforeseen adds?

3. If they give us equal dps, are you ok with the above being reversed and they can do all that we can do? While we're at it, let's throw back in that they can raid tank TBM.

Now that we have homogenized these two classes, we have to get to work on the others to really make EQ fair again. And, about as vanilla and boring as possible.

Edited to add - if you don't know by now that warriors were not meant to solo and mages are, well, I just don't know anymore what to tell you. lol

I don't see pets tanking 40+ mobs in a gribble instance for an AE group. I would say that Warriors have a larger advantage in tanking over pets, just as the solo classes have a larger advantage in DPS over tanks. It all balances out in the end.

They must have some crappy players lol

The very day I made Mayfaire, I spent a long time reading the class descriptions. What I read made it VERY clear that warriors were group-dependent, whereas mages (and necros, etc) were able to solo. I took some time to consider this, and came very close to making a pet class rather than warrior due to it. So, all I can ask is, did you read the class descriptions when you signed up?

Edited to add: I mean, come ON Makavien, you have one of your boxes in your sig listed as a mage. Tell me, is that pet so op that you let it tank rather than your warrior? Because, one of MY boxes is a mage and I will tell you right now, a pet is not tanking in my group. Never, not unless I suddenly have a mad desire to wipe a lot. The only reason I have a mage rather than a wiz is coth, that's it.

The entire thread is about moloing not soloing or grouping . And nope but the possibility of it being used in the way I explained should not exist and it did before this nerf . And it did not exist before the pet tanking over players at all times change. You could of used what I explained to pull almost endlessly with the entire group focusing on dps . Instead of the jobs they are designed to do.

When was the last time YOU read the class descriptions? This may come as a surprise to you, but they are largely inaccurate and irrelevant.

Here's a list of the classes that are capable of solo according to descriptions:

Bard - "Bards do well both alone and in groups."
Beastlord - "Beastlords can adventure solo well in many places."
Druid - "well-rounded class, prospering in both solo and grouped situations."
Mage - "able to adventure solo"
Monk - "not unusual to see a monk adventuring alone."
Necro - "self-sufficient and often choose to adventure alone"
Paladin - "can sometimes work alone"
Ranger - "can hunt alone"
Shadowknight - "can use their dark powers to adventure solo"
Shaman - "well-rounded class with strong abilities both group and solo"
Wizard - "capable adventurers both solo and in groups"