Ok lets drop the whole SK, pally, tank argument and stick to the topic and focus of this thread .I will tell you right now, a mage pet will grab aggro and hold it better then a warrior, SK or paladin. I could care less, but mages know damn well this is the case, no one wants to concede this, but its true. I seriously doubt the dev team intended for pets, specifically, mage pets the ability to hold aggro to that extent. To the extent that a raid geared, maxed out paladin, using every hate ability, in proper precise order, FoD, force of the darkened Sea, Valliant deflection, etc, and then, its still not enough, gotta pull it back using Unflinching Affirmation, only to lose aggro again, having to cycle through my entire hate AA hot bar to stay on top of it. Yeah, go ahead and talk smack, I know its gonna piss of a lot of players, but lets call a spade, a spade. And its more then a matter of just "Turning off taunt". Its about group geared tank classes not getting into a group because mage pets are better and the slot can go to a dps type.
Ok, Magicians are overpowered and need to be nerfed, especially their pets. Always have been like this, as was argumented by many "tanks", it can't be that a magican can molo current content. As it turns out, wonderfully lined out by Mr. Class Clown here, Paladins are just as capable, and could have eben soloed it as he only had DPS support from his merc. If memory serves me right, Pria the Penitent ate my Earthpet twice, with SHM slow on it, 2 cleric mercs and a Shaman healing it, while I did DPS with my mage. Clearly, magicians need to be further nerfed. 'tis has been proven by the one and only understanding pet-aggro! When in group, I mostly use Airpet. Earth-pet, even with aggro weapons, is a no go. Both the Zerker as well as the wizard of the group would be perma-summoned; hell even I get summoned against my earthpet regularly, even further down the fight. Even my airpet struggles to keep the wizard off the aggro at the beginning of fights. I don't have that problem while on my SK, nor does our main SK. if you find yourself struggling for aggro against ANY pet - learn to play. What you are describing here is not even anecdotally correct but both pure propaganda and calling for nerfs. We don't like nerf-calls here (well, apart from a relatively minor but vocal group, of whom you seem to be a member as well). Edit: I would really like your clearly qualified opinion on how exactly a mage pet "tanks better" than a group tank. Just let me grab my popcorn while you type.
So now its name calling, and attacking my skill level as a Paladin! You are right, it has nothing to do mage pets, they are completely balanced, I suck, I need to learn how to play the game and quit trying to get mages nerfed. Its all me, and my inability to control or take aggro. Lmao. Igniz can you teach me how to become a better Paladin?
Ok...Full burn on, and engage the same mob a mage pet engages and at the same time, multibind if need be, whatever gets the spells off faster. One only needs to put it to the test and the results are there. Done with this conversation. Take the nerf and adapt to the changes. Oh yeah, as for paladin nerf? Gladly. We do too much dps. Take 25 percent of my dps and give it to the SK class, they need it. I'm fine with that. Just leave my hate and healing alone. modify hate increase for loss of dps so we dont lose any. Im fine with that.
No, I never played a high-level paladin. There, I can only go from what I observe with paladins I group or raid with. Fact is, these seem to never have had any problems with my pet's aggro. I can try to teach you how to do aggro on a SK, though, as on my SK, I am able to grab aggro from any pet no matter how long it tanked before and hold aggro against it without the need of a fullburn or aggro AAs. Also, you got me wrong, I am not calling for "nerf the paladins". I am calling for "actually look at the state of the game whenever some self-proclaimed specialist calls for nerfs for other classes, especially as you just now righteously proclaimed you're after nothing else than a nerf:
Well, I have no idea where you get your information from, but reducing pet aggro is not neccessary and won't any tank's job easier. Before a pet grabs aggro from a tank who knows his stuff, any DPS worth their salt will probably have overtaken you by a mile. Edit: Quoted you before you edited your post, but i feel this is quite interesting, so I'll keep it
yeah, im trying to not feed the fuel anymore, Igniz...Frankly, you bore me. The thing that made me laugh the most was the 27 or 22 second parses to support a dps position.
If mages use their calm pet aa then tanking over the pet is fine and easy, if you're a paladin you can even give marrs to the pet to help out. If the mage isn;t using his calm pet aa then let the mage pet tank if it keeps getting agro why worry.
As I tried to explain to you, I don't raid with my SK. And in group content, nameds just don't live longer, I am sorry
Without trying to be insulting, I would just like to say...You are bad... Now with that out of the way, I don't see any Knight or Warrior in raid or group that has issues with pet aggro. I could dual wield aggro weapons on my air pet in group content getting a combo of nice stuns and still not gank it off even a decent Knight or Warrior. Just because you have to hit a few buttons to keep aggro doesn't mean they are OP, that just means you're so god damn lazy you think you should be able to keep aggro with auto attack.
^ this guy gets it. No tank should be having issues if they (and the pet user) aren't committing mass user error. If a ranger is spamming their taunt button, it isn't really the tank's fault that aggro pongs around, just like if a tank isn't using all their tools it's not the dps' fault. Separate topic, but none of these things you're citing addresses the actual problem (a unique role that we're best at and/or something meaningful that we bring to raids that others don't).....other than kiting, which is more of a punishment than a role. It'd be like me saying that you as a Mage have raid utility because on the Plane of Shadow raid pet dps is handy with the black/white orbs or that your pets wreck Zun'muram in Txevu .
Is it really about tank classes getting passed over for pets... If you're having that much trouble you need to communicate to your pet owners that they need to use their calm aa. Two multibind. Three, ask for help. Calling for mage nerfs is possibly the worst way of dealing with your tanking problems.
Hey man, I'll swap you dps/modrod raid importance for offtank/whatever sks can do raid importance any day of the week. Most raids want at least one Mage. If there's no sk, there is very rarely a moment where someone blurts out, "damn! Wish we had 1 sk for x!"
This is really very simple if you can't get agro from pet, two bad things are happening here ,one tank needs to learn there class better ,two pet owner needs learn there class better ...This not blame of one this blame of both ... both being equal lazy and or not a good player .... If EQ does not allowing pets too tank group mission and or group content , then a lot of people wont be able finish this content , I have now help countless people get past many mission use my Mage or my Bst pet for tanking , cause there a few reasons not enough tank playing at some time zone ,and also a lot of tanks once they finish content wont help others , mind you a lot will help others ,but like in life you have people that help other ,and people that just help just themselves ... And if they take Pet tank away this wont really effect how Mage/Necro has played much cause we don't really stand next to mob and stab it for so much DPS , this will kick the Bst for sure cause they do make a lot DPS melle next to there pet . Mind you if you stand just right you can use rain spell and melle on Mage hehe .... Plus the most simple fix here is have pet on/off switch for agro Yi Min
Seriously, Linden... Many people are trying to tell you what you're doing wrong, and you're assuming the vast majority is wrong, and you're the only one that is correct. As hard as it is to think so for you, you NEED to consider that you're not playing your class as well as you could. If you cannot easily keep agro off a magician pet, then there is one single thing that must be happening, for that to be the case. You are not multibinding and spamming your best hate spells... period. You have already stated you do not multibind. I will guarantee that if you multibind your best hate spells and spam that multibind while tanking a mob, you'll cast at least 15-20% more casts over a length of time than manually pressing them one by one.... And NEVER have agro issues vs a pet. My other speculation is that you're not even using your best hate spells, or not casting them as soon and every time they are available, in highest to lowest hate order (which is exactly what a multibind is for)... I have no clue what they are for a Paladin, it would be nice for someone to chime in what they are, but I'd surely guess that you're not using them, since you're having so much issues.
Here we go again.. I have a mage and we are suppose to have the strongest pets in game, there are classes for a reason. i will never complain that i can't nuke as well as a wizard or solo as well as a necro but having the best pet in game? oh LORD can't have THAT! There are classes for a REASON, we all have our limitations and need to just accept them, a rogue can't tank and a real rogue would never assume he can be a tank for a group (real content not talking about light/dark blue mobs) A shaman shouldn't whine that his light blue con pet can't face up to Named better than a Mages Air pet or Earth just accept your limitations already , you chose the class, play as it should. Couldn't have said it better myself, i am not asking for our pets to tank Raid level encounters better or equal to a warrior but group content YES and we all know how "awesome" merc tanks are, so having mage pets being the tank for groups is one of the best changes EQ has implemented. Otherwise hmm i want that mountain ability monks get, cause they are too overpowered and i want to be able to pull just as well as a monk with my MAGE yep! -_- Also throw in using a bow like a ranger, backstabs, slows annd enchanter charm cause its just not fair you all have that and mages don't!
I usually play tank archtypes, I enjoy them and all. But as a player I agree/have no problem with mage pets or any of the three main pet classes tanking group content. But when I don't play a tank I'd take a pet of any of the three over a tank merc any day of the week. I'm just casual and I hop around characters so I'm always in need of xp in some form. In today's HA's, the cotf ones I mean tank mercs, after the changes to the difficulty of them are just.... bad. I'd take a mage/beast/necro pet over a tank merc any day, every day. I've grouped with a lot of mages, the mage class, well there's a lot of you guys. I've never had a rude one or anything when I put together groups, but with over saturation you get the good and not so good. Yeah sometimes I get the mage in groups with his earth pet up with taunt and agro weps/buffs etc. Usually they're switch to a water pet for me when I ask. I've encountered a few mages that I was amazed at what they could do. Mages strike me of class everyone plays one but few actually knows how to play one. I'd like to see the mage class return to it's not burn as much as a wizard but more sustained but not sustain as much as a necro and more burn. I think that was a good middle ground for the mage class. I also feel that a lot of what the mage class brings to a group isn't applicable/needed in a raid, much like the monk class. I hope both classes get some love, as the more happy eq players are about their class and like it the more they play the more groups I get. In any case, my two copper.
Issues I have with pet agro are when owners neglect to use Calm Demeanor. I had to tell a few folks about it and they seemed annoyed having to use it. Particular Mage I know seems to get the best agro out of a water pet. Might be a pet-level thing. Looks like they're switching things around with the next patch. Can't wait to read the agro nerf rage.
