Pet Tanking Raid Mobs

Omg people really need to actually read entire threads. If that's too much work, don't make a comment. Though I think with Kreacher's response, he didn't even finish reading that one comment. His whole post is ridiculous when you look at the very next line in the comment he's quoting.

Anyone can kite and tanks can be far the worst for it. The only real difference between his and your list is you feel something should be done your approved way and others feel there should be more options.

Pet raid tanking needs to be eradicated, it's cheesy, it steals tank's job, it has no place.
Since when are magician tank class, oh wait, they aren't.
Anyone defending this is basically someone abusing the mechanics and an old game to bypass the dps delt by boss part of the event.

Devs need to fix this, there is a vast array of possible solutions.

Actually, magician earth pets are a tank class, they were designed to tank, and intended to tank. I don't think you'll find a single dev that claims that is not what they were designed to do! And that magicians were intended to use them as tanks! Making obviously false claims tends to obscure any legitimate points you may have.

Just like the original poster insisting his nerf call was not a nerf call, who then spent more effort denying the obvious than anything else. ANYTHING that calls for the elimination of a previously viable tactic is a nerf, by definition.

Oh I guess war archetype and rogue archetype nec pet mean they re both a rogue and a tank class amirite?
Lol the thing some people post to protect their OP and game breaking toys.
Tank archetype is meant to be more sturdy and able to take more AE/Wild rampage, not to tank raid mobs (and grp named really but that s another story).

Being in a mid-tier guild myself,I must say pet tanking sucks big time, my guild pretty much uses it constantly and I am just left range dps'ing while I could tank it myself, but our RL take the easy avenue.
I can't blame my guild and the RL for that, going for the most efficient way and easiest way isn't condemnable , but the devs should put a stop to this.

You weren't talking about necro pets, you were talking about magician pets. Trying to redirect the example to a weaker pet class doesn't make your original statement any less incorrect. And if you aren't willing to admit that you've already lost the argument, just like the original poster re the word "nerf".

Best look up the word archetype...you clearly don't know the dictionary definition. I will agree that tank classes are meant to be sturdier than non-tank classes. That statement applies to both PC and NPC (including pets) tank classes. However, that has never stopped non-tank classes, or even non-tank pets, from stepping into the tank role from time to time, sometimes successfully.

Once again, find me a relevant dev that says pet tank classes are not intended to be used in tank roles. Until that happens, your basic premise that pets are not allowed to tank is simply not supported.

There's always some way that folks respond to beating a raid.

I think that the nerf was a repsonse to change that. They can do that, even if they can't think ahead to every idea people have of beating their encounters. I say, fix it in an expansion, not after the fact!

That being said, if I was a dev I'd add some kind of charm that only works on pets in a raid encounter, causing them to beat the arses out of the raiding party. That's always funny. lol I remember when someone's mage pet long ago beat the snot out of our group. Then there's always, "where's my pet?"

Whatever, I think it's just people hate changes "after the fact." If you don't want players to do something, don't make it possible. Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose. I find it fun that players can still be creative in this game somewhat, to the point that we get nerfs as a response.

I ask that you never become that dungeon master that only has one plan in place and tries all they can to channel you to it due to their lack of creativity and ability. While I still think Dungeons and Dragons is a superior game, EQ does have it's advantages as always being there and allowing one to connect with people all of the world. I am a true addict, despite what appears to be the dumb hindsight nerfs.

Good luck in your arguments talking like this.

If pets arent supposed to tank, and if they will not be made to work like mercs do now, then why not make mobs ignore pets and just proc a combo of summon and root on the next player on target list if none is in melee range?

that way you would need players to tank, and to hell with mages and necros who want to solo.

i'm notsure if you're serious or sarcastic here heh. SK's dont "swarmkite" we swarm-tank, and HA and HT in no way are bad for the game LOL. But, we know you hate sk's so...

as to the issue at hand, it's been said and i'll reiterate: There are drawbacks to using a pet to tank in a group or in a raid, the loss of dps from melees. It already ahs a sufficient drawback that if a guild or a group iscapable of beating a given raid/mob using a real tank, they will, and if they arent , they'll at least take the shot at beating it with a pet+range dps, so that their guild can get something out of the time spent there. To say that tanks are badly played or geared if they can't tanka given mob is poor elitism at its worst. To also say that you must gear up yoru wars first and to hell with anyone else in the raid...well not everyone sees it that way. Tanking is a community effort as we all know whether we admit it to ourselves or not. Aggro isnt thesole responsibility of the tank, it's the responsibility of those not tanking to not overaggro as well, Surviving is also not the sole responsibility of the tank, it's the tank's skills/gear/aa choices as well as the healers' aa/spell choices and those doing cc on adds and those responsible for slowing the mobs, etc. For those guilds (most) that will not be beating entire expansions within the first month of release, gearing up tanks first is not a 2-3 day process, it's more like a month or 2 or 3, and leaving out the rest of the guild for that period of time is a good way to make people leave.

I don't like pet-tankingraid mobs, i don't think it should be nerfed though. Pet-tanking nerfs the raidforce already by making it take far longer and making anyone that gets close to the boss become the target. Do i think that raidgeared pet classes should be able to solo/molo missions that take far more effort from real groups with real tanks? no, but they do, because they're a dps and a healer and a tank with only 1 person rather htan 3. It happens, oh well. Does it hurt the rest of us? Not in the slightest. on that note, i am tired of the number of mobs and events that are nearly impossible for a sub-optimal group UNLESS the tank is a pet or merc, that DOES hurt tanks because we have no recourse (like the MG anniversary mission for example) but in most cases using a pet to tank is often because of other mobs that will need to be tanked and usinga pet frees up more tanks to do so, nothing wrong with that. You'll move slower with a pet tanking. So what? If you move slower you move slower, at least you're moving, as opposed to being steadfast taht only tanks should ever tank, and then never beatinganything.

I don't see how pet tanking any mob whether raid or otherwise is an issue. If you don't want to pet tank raid mobs....join a guild that doesn't do it. If someone spends the time to develop their pet to tank....then what is the difference. I agree that pets should receive the same effects from raid mobs as a normal tank would..... but if a guild wants to have all range DPS and pet tank who cares. Next you'll be saying that pets shouldn't tank in groups because its unfair to tank classes. Sometimes there isn't a tank available so you improvise. If you beleive that a pet is equal to a tank class in survivability then I'd have to disagree.

i think the biggest issue with people with pet-tanking is the mechanics ignoring pets AND the gearing aspect. Once one gets all tehir tankingaas (or pet aas for pet classes) a tank must acquire and continue to upgrade 20+ slots and 20+ augs to retain their usefulness on new content, a pet-class need only get a new EM focus and a couple spells. That is where a lot of the animosity from tanks comes from. I hate pet tanks, because i'm a tank and i prefer the "manly" method of taking your bruises, but early in expansions or in over-tuned mobs, also mobs with wierd mechancis that ignore pets, pets ARE a better choice until tanks have had teh chance to get their new gear andaugs while the petclass simply buys their new spells (tanks also need new discs and spells as well as the gear/augs remember) and off they go, their pet's alreayd end-game geared as a tank, a tank has to sink far more effort and time into doing so. Perhaps if pets and their gearing etc were changedi n a way that this year pets stay as they are, and next year you have to start gearing up taht pet with real gear (but not augs thats askinga bit much imo, let the EM focus be the augs and htedetermining factor between if thegear counts like group gear or raid) and then make pets rezzable. (There are games that work like this now but they'rel imited in tehir gearslots, a modified system could be used in EQ that combines both) That way pets wont winstantly be full geared by getting the summon armor spell summon weapons spell and new EM focus, while tanks are farming nearly 50 drops to reach teh same upgrade.

would have to be such that when you get a new pet-summon it rezzes your pet and would add a perma-buff to it that brings it up to your level, then as yo ugar it up it gets stronger etc, then when the new year comes and you get a new spell, it's a new permabuff/rez for your pet and you dont have to move teh gear just give it newer that's an upgrade, once would then have to have a tab somewhere that allows you to inspect your pet's gear though so you know what you need to upgrade or not, but i think that and removing the ignore-pet mechanics of many spells, would remove this issue without in any way nerfing pets. If a pet is going ot be a tank, that's fine, but they shoudlnt jsut be a free tank that comes with a toon that has more dps than tanks on their own for less effort.

I'm a wizard. I don't tank and I don't have a pet that tanks. My point is that I'm fairly unbiased in this. Leave pet tanking alone, it doesn't hurt you. If your guild does it and you really can't abide it, change your guild's mind or change your guild.

From a lore perspective, I have no issue whatsoever with a magician summoning a hulking creature that tears itself from the ground of Norrath itself to attack the caster's foes, inflicting and absorbing massive amounts of damage.

If there is no problem with pet tanking, then why not make them compete for aggro and have the same chance to steal it as a warrior merc with real players in melee?

Magicians and Necromancers are a solo class. Been that way since 1999. To hell with anyone who wants to take that feature away by having mobs ignore pets and proc summon/root on the next player on hate list.

Pet owners would love dearly to have the game be so that in the group game, a pet can tank and melee can be in range to melee. As a magician, it hurts me that I could not play with a friend of mine whose main was a rogue (before the intro of tank mercs).

Pet owners really do not want to tank raid named. We are far more concerned with our DPS parse. We would be perfectly happy if game mechanics affected pets the way they do players at the raid game. This is not a magician issue... This is a developer/designer issue. We wish to not be blamed and scolded because of a situation that is out of our control. And like I mentioned, as well as others... there are so many negatives towards pet tanking raid named that guilds who do it are cheating themselves out of the fulfillment of doing a raid done right and not "cheesy".

I am pretty unbiased in this stuff. Nerfs to pet classes are not necessary. The issue here is that raids are tuned heavily towards heavy tanking requirements and healing(rubak is a decent example where you can replace 1 or 2 tanks with mages and get better results than with warriors). Instead of gearing up tanks to the extreme it is far easier to use a mage pets because they are the best pet tanks and can avoid a lot of detrimental stuff and aes.

Pets should be able to tank all of group content. It is the raid stuff that people get annoyed at. Because most raids require burns of some kind and you cannot do that if a mage pet is tanking. So either force raid mobs to kill whatever is highest on the agro list no matter what is in melee or make it so that a warrior is better at tanking than a mage pet in all situations. Gear can be an issue here but I cannot imagine why guilds would not gear up their tanks. Most guilds that do this, do it because the content is tuned too hard on tanks imo, not because their tanks are terrible and undergeared.

I would much prefer they make it easier for (war, pal, sk) to gear up and tank raid bosses then using pets to tank. It's not a mage issue imo its a tanking issue and a raiding issue.

There are casual guilds out there that raid, typically with an alliance and/or with an open channel where almost anyone willing can join if there is room. They tend to not have a unified strategy along the lines of gearing up tanks first with the best stuff. Either because they can't have total control over gear due to the semi-open nature of the raid or the fact that there just isn't enough gear coming in.The currency is really the savior with all this but even then only 10 T3 coins a week makes for a slow go.
Typical casual guild right now can do Argath, Sarith, Valley and Beasts Domain. Anything past that is getting into being quite an accomplishment. There is no incentive to do anything in HoT and RoF raids will not be 100% for sure until most everyone is lvl 100. BD tends to be a pet tanked event and fair to say, without the pets than there would be no tier 3 for casual players who still like to raid because gearing tanks as well as meeting healing demands is spotty. Now it would be great to get some fully decked out raid tanks from the higher tier guilds to come tank for us or some more healing, but it doesn't happen due to lockouts or the fact that they have better things to do. So with BD, it is pets. There is always hope that the ends justify the means. Sure, a pet tanking is cheezy but the opportunity to gear real tanks with better gear as a result can't be denied because of it. Even with pets, we are still talking 4 whole raids out of 12 that can be done in VoA. RT and Rubac separate those who are serious from a weekend rec league in this game.

What focus of pet should do this and why should 1 loot (ear) be a replacement for a far more gear intensive group tank ?