Lockjaw Rotation Updated - 8/15/15

Guess again bud. Its classic, I'm as well geared as any member of my class in your guild. What I want, is for the rest of my guild to not have to wake up at 3 am, or be forced to make a wizard, or to stare at a spawn point for hours on end to achieve the same gear level. I don't want that for anyone. You and your guild is willing to go to those lengths so it forces others to conform to your style of play, "to compete".

Talking to you guys is like being on some hellacious merry-go-round that plays a broken record.

How much is enough before you say to yourself, "Have we taken so much that just maybe, it warrants all this backlash?"

LOL. This guy ^

Actually, we get, on average 14.87 mobs per week while ragefire gpt (BEFORE KUNARK) 18.907 per week (only counting vox/naggy/Inny/CT.

why uh... why are you playing everquest? there are a plethora of games (even including live EQ) that don't have open world raids with variances. You do know that, right?

This has what to do with the conversation? Your argument then is do things your way or leave? Thanks, but no.

Sigh, there are many mid tier players in your guild as well, as noted by the ones that hated the TL machine on RF cause they couldn't get an invite or compete only to join FI so they didn't have to.

I'd counter and suggest that perhaps you need to read up on target spawn rates. Such targets like Nagefen used to be 7 day spawns. The gods were 7 day spawns. Noble Djorn was a 7 day spawn. Now Naggy and Vox get killed every two days. Quite a bit faster, no?

How noble of Faceless to take down those raid targets for the rest of the community. So kind and generous of them. The community has been blessed by not having to be cursed with the suffering of waiting a few more hours to have a target killed.

Really? Is that what we've come to now? Faceless, champions of FFA and the community, saving it from needless suffering? Believe it or not, other guilds are quite capable of taking down raid targets, especially when they aren't rushed and can get their crew online all at the same time.

Lets not pretend that Faceless killing raid targets on FFA is benefiting anyone but Faceless. Its almost sad that you would even try to convince people that.

Good for them? They aren't on our server. And using your numbers, 14.87 mobs (only counting Vox, Naggy, Inny, CT) is a lot more than 4 mobs a week total that it used to be.

Raid targets not being killed the instant they are up, and guilds having time to organize and fight at a time that benefits the whole guild isn't hurting you.

If you are so concerned with how fast Ragefire kills than Lockjaw, perhaps you should of joined the server.

Because he chooses not to wake up at 3am to kill a FFA that makes him a mid-tier player? Its funny that some Faceless people want to call out others for what they perceive as attacks on them, but a direct statement intended as an insult is just fine for you to do? Faceless used to be better than this, so I was led to believe long ago.

If that's true, than why does Faceless advocate wanting more FFA mobs and to lower the amount of rotation mobs? The numbers don't lie for amount that Faceless kills on the FFA days. Its more than every other guild COMBINED.

How is any other guild taking away from others and screwing them out of kills and loot? Has this thread not gone over a thousand times now the amount of kills Faceless has vs other guilds? Who's screwing who again?

Because those smaller/casual guilds are just tearing up the FFA mobs, right? You know, because they are left up for so long that the smaller/casual guilds have time to organize and get enough people on to get the kill before Faceless has killed it, right?

You mean during a time that is almost their primetime? You mean a time that most people living in east or west coast America are working during the work week? A guild that spends quite a bit of time in Hate? Let's not pretend this was an hour that most other guilds would compete at.

You really just don't get it, do you? How many FFA does Faceless take? Are the other guilds really taking away loot from the other guilds, or is Faceless the one who does that the most? You haven't looked at yourself for a long time in the mirror, have you?

Your reasoning for why RoI moved/merged with Faceless is absolutely incorrect. That is your opinion from an outsider looking in that bares no truth.

The reason we moved is not because we couldn't compete (no one could) or that we couldn't get an invite (anyone could) but because of their attitude towards the community and disinterest to rotations. TL killed every raid encounter since the opening of the server save two (1 nag & 1 vox) and they would take your camp if they wanted it (dps race, braahhhhh!).

Pushing the whole community out of all raid level content did not align with our beliefs whatsoever so the choice to move was made. In fact, if RF had the rotation that Lockjaw currently has (or even the one prior) I'm not even sure if we would of ever left.

Lockjaw's rotation and the belief that all guilds should be able to experience all content is what brought us over. The choice to merge with Faceless was because most of us were 'hardcore' (in playing time) and our ideals of not locking out the server to raid level content matched Darth's/Faceless.

Our ideology is that time+effort=reward. If you're not willing to put forth both then you shouldn't be rewarded as much as those who are. I'm actually shocked that everyone doesn't share the same because if I was a casual player I would absolutely be thankful to be able to see everything without a guild locking me out or breathing down my neck nor would I ever think I deserve 1:1 ratio as a guild that is 4x bigger in size, can raid at all hours, and has a lot more play time.

I stopped reading and posting in these forums because of the mess they became. I came back to check on results for the 15th meeting.

The issue I see developing in this thread(and creeping to others and in game) is that there seems to be two camps of thought. One, that like Wiluven said that time+effort=reward. Two, that because a guild CAN kill a raid boss that they should receive equal kills as everyone else.

There are problems with both sides as far as I am concerned. Both have legitimacy and deserve attention however I believe that if there are going to receive said attention they need to be handled with more care.

Scenario 1: Time+effort=reward. By simple logic you could say that if one player devotes twice as much time and on top of that accomplishes things twice as fast, resulting in four times as much effective play time, they should receive twice as much(if not more) than the next player. The flaw here is that the raid bosses are not hard, and do not require "effort" nor "time" to do. What seems to be missing however, is that its not about either of those things. It is about healthy competition leading to a more diverse and integrated server. Certain people are saying things like "shouldnt have to log in at 3 am, level a wizard to do damages, or poopsock" and I think everyone agrees! Thing is though, none of those things will win you a FFA. Assuming that they will may be the reason FI is the only ones winning them...

Scenario 2: Ability=Reward. This is a mindset that came about BECAUSE of instancing and indirectly WoW. With instancing you can raid at your convenience, take as long as you want to complete the raid, and have a set schedule for the raiding itself. The issue with this line of thought is that simply put, Classic EQ does not have instancing, so it is not going to apply to a TLP server. There are literally thousands of other games with this mechanic, in fact almost EVERY other game has it. However, people came back to this server in order to experience the game they grew up on so many years ago. Understood, makes perfect sense. What does not make sense though, is that the majority of the players that came back did not even raid in era content, let alone raid all of it every week. Every single person on the server has a variety of guilds to choose from, join and successfully do raid content in era this time around though. Awesome right?

Please for the sake of this thread realize that both of these mentalities can exist together. Faceless wanting to retain the reason they chose to play on this server(FFA's) is not what is going to kill the server. It is the people that have no idea what they are doing here that are. The people that want the best of both worlds. There seem to be quite a few that want to log on at their convenience AND get equal share of everything. That attitude is what is killing America, and it will surely kill Lockjaw if not remedied.

At the end of the day, if people are already asking for easy access and handouts and blaming anyone and everyone else, it is not going to get better before it gets worse. It is these players that will not make it to kunark let alone ensure the long lasting stability and community of Lockjaw.

As someone who would benefit from faceless NOT killing as many mobs as they do...

You people are nuts. Faceless SHOULD get more mobs, since if there wasn't a rotation, they would get a very very very high percentage. With MOST of the guilds on the rotation not even coming close to standing a chance.

Faceless offering to start a rotation was an honorable thing to do, REGARDLESS of the terms. It's still offering guilds a chance.

Stop whining, no-one cares if you came back to experience raid content, every person who ever played eq knew exactly how these servers would end up, if you didn't you're delusional.

You shouldn't be bashing faceless for anything (except housing banuvan ) you should be thanking dbg for forcing these rotations to stick. It's so tiring to read people whining about this .

And.....that's precisely why there is a rotation. The old "might makes right" argument doesn't hold water.

lol

I meant no disrespect to RoI at all, just to some newcomers to LJ that openly protested against the machine on RF and now have a sudden change of heart of how the game should be played, and throws it into others' faces, that is all.

And yes, LJ did have a pseudo rotation but you have to realize that it was set up with the understanding that FI could change or ignore it anytime they wanted to if they didn't like what was happening and other guilds just had to submit to it. They were in complete control of the rotation and how it was handled and now they aren't.

I also do not disagree that time=effort, to be honest, I would prefer it to be FFA that way if a mob or raid trash happened to be up at 8 am, I can take a small group of players and take a shot at it if I wanted to, now, I can't even zone into some raid zones or risk getting suspended. We all have DBG to blame for this, they changed the way the game was meant to be played, they are enforcing rotations, and they put the power in the hands of the majority of casual guild leaders or those opposed to FFA. If that majority wants to get rid of it completely, there really is nothing any of us can do about it and coming on here and calling them casuals, or less skilled just pokes the bear and reduces the chance for any compromises. DBG has changed the game with this rule-set, time to adapt.

Hey someone said you lose maybe 1 spawn per week and there are numbers that say you lose about 4 spawns per week.

Your argument about the 7 day spawn timers back in the day is pretty invalid. These servers are much much more populated than the original servers and it doesn't even compare. Back in the day there wouldn't have been 11 guilds going after these mobs (in just 4 months of the server going live). There maybe would have been 1-2 in the first year!

You are comparing apples to oranges and basing a weak argument on that.

,

The only thing apples to oranges is your argument. The weak argument is suggesting that leaving raid targets up for longer than the insta-kills that we see now on FFA is harming the community, and that Faceless is doing everyone a favor by killing them when they pop.

Your suggestion that the old spawn timers compared to now is invalid is simply wrong. In the past week we've had 4 Lady Vox, 4 Lord Nagafen, 4 Innorruuk, 4 Cazic Thule, and 2 Efreeti. Let's not even mention the daily Yaels and multiple Phinigel each day or the increase in Hate mobs that are killed.
Back in the day, you would have seen one of each of those a week at the most. You also would have seen that content, as you yourself just said, downed by 1-2 guilds only. This week, however, we've seen Ascended Darkness and Dead Halfling Society and Faceless kill Lady Vox (Faceless twice). We've seen Midnight Phyre, The Free Masons, and Faceless kill Nagafein (Faceless twice). We've seen Magicus, The Free Masons, Peace of Formasia Ex, and Faceless kill Innorruuk. We've seen Magicus, The Free Masons, Ascended Darkness, and Faceless kill Caciz Thuule. We've seen Ascended Darkness and Faceless kill the Efreeti cycle.

Next week we're going to see Modest Man start getting in on the kills as their rotation comes up. We're going to see Forsaken Order, Collector of Souls, and August Rising get their shots soon too. All of this, other than the FFA, is done at the times that best fit the guild who's day it is to raid a certain target.

What does this say? This shows that the rotation is working, and that multiple guilds are getting their shot at raid targets. It shows that even waiting hours to kill a target is still allowing guilds to get kills in that they wouldn't see if there was more FFA.

Let's look at the FFA. Vox- killed by Faceless. Naggy- killed by Faceless. Innorruuk- killed by Faceless. Cazic Thule- killed by Faceless. Efreeti- killed by Faceless.

They sure are doing a great job at letting the smaller/casual guilds get their kills in on raid targets, what with monopolizing them and all. How kind of them to help the rest of the server out.

Evidence shows clearly that the rotation is working, and that multiple guilds are all able to participate in kills, even if they take up to 24 hours to kill. Evidence also shows that FFA isn't really benefiting anyone else but one guild,

I don't disagree that we don't need some FFA, as it does in theory offer some chance for smaller/casual guilds to get a kill before they can make a rotation, but at the same time lets not forget just who really is getting those kills. Its not to the benefit of anyone but Faceless. They aren't doing anyone a favor by killing them.

No more FFA!
Because Faceless Cares!
Really, the health of the SERVER is much more important than the health of ONE GUILD that won't be around in a year anyways because they are on the WRONG server.