Viability of a no box server

I predict that the nobox server will be a huge success. My hope is that they will open with kunark or even velious and allow a window for transfers from Rage and Lock. This would probably force a Rage Lock merge at some point though...

Interesting perspective. To my mind, the worst community ever involves being at a camp with a full group of players each controlled by a different human being, chatting away, having a blast ... and then having a boxed mage crew show up, say "DPS Race Brah", proceed to take the camp and then sell the loot for Kronos to fund their army.

The "harassing boxers" whining is getting pretty old. Running roughshod over the server is harassment, pointing out "hey, that dude's ruining this for everyone in his wake" isn't. And, to the best of my knowledge, no one goes batshit over someone dragging along a healer box to ease the leveling process.

The worst community ever is caused by the mindset that "I enjoy boxing 35 characters, monopolizing loot, and making money extorting Kronos from others" isn't impacting everyone in your wake.

Think about it this way. If your business causes 35 non boxers to stop playing, absolutely nothing changes about what your army will be doing on a daily basis, you still have your fun. Eventually, if the trend continues, you'll feel an impact because you might actually have to pay to play instead of paying your rent from your EQ business, but that's probably a ways off.

However, if instead, those 35 players don't unsub but YOU stop playing, 35 players who can't currently enjoy the game because you're monopolizing content so you can extort Kronos from them actually get to enjoy the game.

When you run roughshod over a zone, that's ok ... but if the people that you not only run over but who you also expect to pay for your playtime (and likely your rent) say "hey, that's a pretty crap way to treat us all" then you're the poor innocent lamb being harassed? You're abusing the system, yeah DBG setup a ruleset that allows you to do it, but it doesn't make you any less a jerk for taking advantage of them being idiots.

I really hope they allow server transfers, I would even pay a premium for this type of server.

The idea that boxing will be reduced to a fraction of what it is on the live progression servers is actually the point of the server. The intention would not be to limit 2-boxing, but to eliminate flavor of the month armies for that particular server.

and you shouldn't say that boxing is unpreventable, because it most certainly is.

1) They could block subscribing more than 2 accounts with the same credit card.
2) They could block consumer VPN services by blacklisting their range of IP addresses.
3) They could create a special subscription service for the server, where krono are unavailable.

Basically, they would eliminate the worth of trying to circumvent all of the above and any other trick people would use to break the rules. The funny thing is, you may get someone clever enough to by-pass the above, but that individual would stick out like a sore thumb only to be banned a day later.

Yeah, I sincerely hope they allow transfers. I really, really want this kind of server but I don't want to start over yet again. This would be my third time. More than likely they will prevent transfers for a month, if they were to even allow them.

Though, I can see them NOT allowing them to prevent the platinum influx as well. So, I guess I'd have to think about it...

Ugh, decisions.

That being said, if they don't launch this server with Kunark open ( and remaining for a full 6 months at LEAST ), I won't even consider coming over. I won't do another 6 months of classic.

I know starting over on this server would be a minor annoyance for some people, but I honestly think it's the best thing to do. If you allow transfers then you immediately start people off with a major unfair advantage over the other players.
You also introduce an economy crippling amount of plat that would destroy it on day one. These things would kill the server before it even started, so I'm all for them keeping people on a level playing field even if it means starting over.

Maybe a good idea is to do what I'm doing now. Severely limit your time playing on the current TLP servers and when you do play, don't put any real commitment or seriousness to it since your playtime there is just a hold-over until the server you REALLY want to play on opens up.
Just kind of jump around playing different games; free-online or otherwise, poke your head in once in awhile to gain a level or help some low levels out, and then just relax until the good TLP opens up.

I'm hoping DBG gets it right this time and to the specifications of the majority rule of players who actually plan to set roots here.

I'm HOPING.....I've seen what they've done in the past and most recently....I'm not too impressed and really just disappointed....but I'm HOPING they get it right this time.

You know what, you're absolutely right.

Pretty much this. Having Kunark open gives some variety on where to level and raid.

I think you all are being a bit optimistic about the extent that DBG will be able to prevent boxing on the server.

I can 100% guarantee you that there will be a workaround to login with multiple accounts from the same computer/cluster of computers. Once one enterprising individual figures it out, they'll share it, and then everyone will be doing it. Even if it requires an extra $10 or $15 per account to do it, any serious multiboxer will gladly dole that out considering their accounts are trivially payed for via Krono.

Furthermore, it's unlikely that DBG will be willing to spend the man-hours required to followup on player reports of multiboxing. This is even if they modify their EULA to reflect that multiboxing is not allowed on this new TLP server.

The bottom line is that you need to get used to the idea that a multiboxer is a paying subscriber and is actively supporting the same game/game company that you are. Once you wrap your head around that, accept that a multiboxing group that disrupts your gameplay is the same thing as a group of individuals that disrupts your gameplay.

Its easier than you think to block any level of folk from logging into a server of any type.

How can you login when your IP is on a deny rule on their enterprise level firewall?
How can you login when that consumer VPN's block of IPs are also on that deny rule on the firewall?

There are going to be just a handful of knuckleheads trying to attempt this stuff and any SysAdmin worth his salt will see the attempts as soon as they're made.

In short, it is extraordinarily easy to lock down a server for whatever purpose you want.

DBG is unlikely to blacklist a legitimate paying subscriber's individual IP address. Server select happens after you've already logged in, and it's still an accepted playstyle on all their other servers.

Furthermore, you really think they're going to blacklist an entire block of IPs from known VPN providers? I think, again, you're being optimistic about how much money they're willing to spend to prevent multiboxing.

You are pretty naive to think people won't find a way around it. You sound like a sales associate at Best Buy with the firewall 101 nonsense.

You are 100% delusional. All the major third party boxing software sites are on board.

If there is an individual out there capable of creating a new tool or modify an existing, he or she would be known.
They are on board, you are just gonna have to accept that fact.
If anyone breaks rank it will be obvious who it was and it will basically be a declaration of war in that scene...
Is it possible that someone is that stupid? I guess but it's unlikely.
I mean who would risk their reputation for a measly no box server with (most likely) very few players on it?
It takes months/years to create a boxing tool, it's completely unreasonable to think anyone would spend all that time when in the end before the tool is even working the server might be dead...

I'm not debating if there will be boxers on the server, there will be, but they will box using hardware and it will be WAY less boxers on it and the ones who do box will stick out...

Please let me clarify one thing, because it seems like the term 'boxing' is thrown around universally and it shouldn't be.

I'm not speaking against players that are playing 1 or 2 additional accounts concurrently. I am talking about players that find the need, want, and desire to play 6 of the same class by themselves and consider that fun. Moreover, these people aren't paying a subscription fee, they are using krono to keep their subscriptions active. And, let me add the whole 'fun' excuse for doing so is getting really old, because you're having fun at my expense.

So no, I dont feel that I'm being optimistic at all, since a no-box server was promised. I can't guarantee that the IT staff at DBG won't fully hold to their promise, but I'm willing to bet that they will try and stand behind their promise of a 'no-box' server as best they can. And, that's all I want.

Why do you people care if the server doesn't allow boxers? You guys have Ragefire and the other to do your bidding?

You are naive to think that they will succeed.

Blocking an IP range is crazy easy and requires no additional money spent. Heck I have some scripts that automate blocking IP blocks from CN and RU; mostly to cut down the number of hack attempts per hour against my servers. (we are a school district, noone outside our county, much less country, will be connecting to our private servers)

Limiting each IP to one login would be done within their servers, again no new hardware to buy.

IF I was going to do this; here is how I'd stop boxing:
No Krono, No Game Cards. Your account must be paid for by Credit/Debit Card to play here.
One login per IP.
One login per Unique Credit Card # used to pay for the account.
ANY sandboxing of eqclient.exe = permaban.
Disable the /follow command.

Sure some boxers will go get 5 more credit cards and pay for 5 different VPN services; but not many and they will be reported. With what should be a severely reduced number of reports hopefully the GM's can keep up with the permabans. I'm sure someone will tell me how wrong I am and how impossible this is; but thankfully I don't have to implement it, DBG does. I just hope their ideas are better then mine.

The difference between a group of people messing with you and a multi-boxer is the group of people may face social consequences, while the multi-boxer can mostly avoid the consequences. For example if my group of players runs in and steals frenzy in LGuk 100 times over the next month, we're going to be blacklisted from lots of people's groups. We might not care at the time, but a month later when not all of us can play we find that no one wants to group with us. It might limit our raid guild options. A multi-boxer controlling 1+ groups can avoid these potential consequences because they never need others to do anything.

That's not to say they would be completely free of consequences from particularly vindictive people, but most people are not willing to go above and beyond in these situations.

Preventing people from doing something they are not suppose to do is only a small part, deterrence is necessary. Consequences should include the ban hammer, with a more streamlined reporting process so players can police the servers themselves. Maybe a tribunal that reviews the evidence of submissions and then passes their findings and recommended actions to the developers.

Either way, if you by-pass the systems to try and box on a no box server you're not a stud, you're a degenerate.

I just pretty much said the same thing, and well said by the way.

However, I realize that you can explain it all you want, but people like Verisimilidude are always out there to try and contradict the obvious or play devil's advocate. As I sit here, I'm also editing a firewall rule on a Zywall 310 to block a range of IP addresses that are doing penetration tests on one of our sites and I can't help but laugh. These people really have no idea what really goes on behind the scenes.

Who are you to determine what is and isn't fun for another person? Different people have different activities that hit the pleasure centers of their brains. It's not really 'at your expense', either: When you show up at the Frenzy camp and there's a six-box mage there, you're welcome to form a group and race or go find another activity that you can do.

They *are* paying subscription fees, too--Every single Krono was generated via a paid transaction where DBG actually made *more* money than a normal subscription.

The two major coders are on board, but that doesn't mean that a solution will be necessary using the toolkit. You're naive to think that a workaround won't be achievable.

I am Zanarnar I think you meant to agree with me and say "people like Verisimilidude". Otherwise I couldn't agree more

What will happen when a group of friends decide to entertain themselves by all making Mages and playing together and DPS racing anyone they run into? I could see 12+ people doing this for laughs. Some people have a lot of time on their hands!

There was a guild on Tarew Marr called <Necro Deathsquad> made up of all necros as the majority, they kicked ! I think these same members at one point killed AoW in era with all Necros.