Ragefire Rotation Discussion

This looks like a stinker, but maybe a start, maybe 2 or 3 more summits will be able to iron out a new rotation.

I think we need a process, agreements like this are a negotiation that take time... specifically so no minority participant can unduly influence the final outcome. A majority cant be claimed when one guild has double representation and at least one other guild was raiding within the confines of a time limit in the current official rotation. Guilds need time to discuss and suggest alternatives.

Some of these ideas have potential, but some are less promising. Add them as proposed changes to the current rotation and we can work them out (including input from the guild seeking entry into the rotation)

The biggest problem I have with the process so far (besides the childish poo flinging on these boards) is the inclusion of a guild that was split off from TL immediately when this process started . I don't mind if they are included in the rotation (current or revised) but they should not have a say in the negotiations. There is an overwhelming appearance that they were split with the sole intent of TL having 2 voices.

As someone who participated in these discussions (Cutie - CAF) I can vouch that the guilds present knew exactly what this new rotation would entail. Many of the guilds are not willing to raid outside of primetime and this is much more favorable.

As you can read from the logs, Melveny's only interest was to preserve the current rotation that was agreed upon by 2.5 (calling that a stretch) guilds.

I say Kudos to Skyp and the rest of TL for organizing this and being willing to consider all possibilities. As you can see, TL is not even the guild that constantly was bringing up the timeslot rotation. So I'm not sure how you can consider that they somehow snuck this in under anyone's nose.

You can't fault someone for realizing that his current place offers no more benefit than him going out on his own. It was started multiple times that due to a rotation being started, Toxn decided to leave.

If you leave your job to start your own business, you're not still considered working for your ex employee.

Because there will be more spawns as we don't have to wait three hours every time something spawns at 2am. More spawns equals more chances for something to spawn during a prime time.

I am not trying to trick anyone here. Waiting 3 hours in the middle of the night for a guild to kill a mob is detrimental to the majority of the server. Again, the only people that it helps are Apok and RoE to help their protected loot.

TL *WILL* probably get 95%+ of the FFA until other guilds are willing to figure out why they aren't winning FFA mobs and fix the problems and be more competitive in FFA. I am under no delusions of that. But it's either keep the guild together and give us a reason to stay competitive or break it apart and join the rotation on a dozen guilds to equally distribute the loot. Which of those is "more toxic?"

As it stands now, TL should get the FFAs. We are the most organized and most dedicated to making it happen. But attitudes like this are why other guilds won't even make attempts. The assumption that we are going to get everything every single time is self fulfilling. You can't win targets if you don't show up.

I never tried to say that TL wasn't going to get 50%. But we are going to get them now anyways. If mobs are going to spawn outside of guilds' raid times, who do you think is going to be there to kill it? The more guilds that have set raid times that join the rotation without being able to guarantee mobs in their window, the less mobs those guilds will get and the more will go to FFA.

Like I have said, the only people that this negatively impacts are 24/7 guilds that don't want any sort of competition. Those guilds currently want to remove all competition from the game, while also excluding people who can't field 24/7 raid forces from the rotation.

The analogies here are being used obfuscate a rather simple situation. Now that Toxn was given an "equal vote" in this new meeting, he will be allowed to have a spot in the rotation then also simply partner with TL during all of the FFA spawns.

The only voice of Rosengard is Bonlgon. The membership follows him.

I'd advise other guilds to stop posting and let the leaders speak on it. One voice per guild is a lot stronger than the current spam. I suspect a few of the posts in here are from people not playing anymore.

One poster - One guild.

(Edit: Can we get some sigs on these posts? Who the hell are these people?!)

Scrubble
Rosengard

I don't fault him at all, I wish him luck and fun. But the appearance is there, so the integrity of the process is compromised.

This has yet to happen. If it seems as though they are partnering together, then we can discuss actions to be taken, but you can't crucify someone for something you think he's going to do. It's just bad form. Give the man a shot.

And this is how some of us think it should be. We're here min/maxing our characters, yelling at people for not having a crap buff in top slot ETC, while other guilds seem to be too busy crying on the forums wanting hand outs than figuring out how to min/max their DPS and contest TL.

Where's your spirit of competition? Do some digging/research and fix your issues, don't put it on the rest of the server to spoon feed you 3 hours of unfettered access where it takes you 1-3 hours to finally kill a boss. We watch these raids, they're full raids. I don't need to hear the excuse "well you guys bring more people" I'd say everyone's right on par with the number of people brought.

I realize some people dont want to min/max and research their classes, that's fine, that's called classic EQ where not everyone got to raid, got cloak of flames, AoN, epic, max level etc. But somehow here we are where everyone deserves everything for little effort. Thanks obama

If you weren't present at the rotation discussion, get your guild on the rotation, and call for a vote. It only takes two thirds to make a change, pretty simple. If your guild was at the rotation discussion, and you personally have issues with it, talk to your guild leadership about it. If your guild can't kill the gatekeeper mob to get on the rotation in the first place, chances are pretty high you can't kill any of the mobs in the rotation either. Forum warriors who represent only themselves honestly don't deserve a voice in any of these discussions as it really doesn't effect them in the slightest.

I was at the discussion (Eaza, Remnants of Prexus). We're not in the rotation. We're fine with it.

I'd honestly say I was the probably biggest pusher of this timeslot rotation, based on discussions with First from TL. Objectively, is the most fair to every style of guild. '24x7 style' guilds who can field raids 24x7 are rewarded for their time and efforts just as much as guilds who can only raid 2-4 times a week, and only during specific hours. The more coverage you have as a guild, the more chances you have at gear. Put in the work to have 24x7 coverage, dedicate the time like, for example, TL does, or don't. That's your guild's choice.

If your sole argument or the reason for change is that 'TL gets more gear than anyone else', you're just wasting everyone's time.

Well said.

Kudos to Ragefire coming together and giving us smaller guilds with families a chance.

Sure this is a TL bot account, because TL knows those guilds won't kill anything on the rotation, thus giving it to them on a silver platter in FFA.

Figures you would post a rude response. My guild has never had the chance to even prove ourselves so how would you know?

Gotta love how Breeze and Druz just keep liking each others posts and tear everyone else down. If you disagree with them you must be a member of TL, right?!

Ethereal was correct in his post in this new Rotation proposal makes the most sense, it gives opportunities to the 2-4 times a week raiders as well as the 24/7 raiders.

Vladimar
Ragefire

Hi.
As everyone can see from the logs i was part of the meeting held yesterday. As the log also shows is that i am in agreement with this proposal.
We need another sit down to discuss how we will handle the coming expansions. Besides that it all looks in order as agreed upon yesterday.

Bonlgon
Guild leader of Rosengard Guild.

It doesn't matter, we already agreed upon a voting system. And I don't agree with any aspect of this proposal, and I know APOK doesn't either so thats 2 vs 2, so it's an impasse and the current rotation should stand, because it's already approved.

Nice job casually ignoring the other 6 guilds on the server that want something different. Honey, I hate to break it to you, but I don't think you understand how a majority works.

This is definitely uncalled for. Let's keep the mudslinging to their everquest related ideas and not towards anyone's sex, race, class, creed, or any other personal details.

As much as I think the true solution relies on instancing. Expedition system with longer lockout and normal FFA spawns would make most people happy.

At least be honest. If you can only raid 7-12 there is no rotation that will gives you lots of bosses during your hours. It doesn't really matter who is killing a boss at 4am, you were never going to.

The only way to get a time based rotation that gives everyone as nice share of bosses would be to up spawn times.

The truth is, people want to raid. More people want to raid than their are bosses for. Less people want to raid off peak. If you can raid off peak under any proposed rotation, you will get more kills.

The solution isn't rotations.
The solution is to not waste time attempting to write code that fails at blocking boxers and 3rd party software. Write the code that gives a built in rotation that doesn't require spreadsheets and summits. Along with the desired FFA competitive advantage.

That's the solution.