Effective Immediately Confirmed Ragefire Rotation

You guys are smart enough to know why that proposal got no traction. Change every FFA slot to twisted legacy and try and claim it as a fair rotation. Because of your numbers, playtime, Mage armies, and months of end game gear access you can win every FFA spawn you want. DBG went with the proposal with less FFA in order to allow more paying customers access to the limited end game available.

That looks like a much better proposal than what has been currently implemented.

I think you didn't read where he said that was Rosengard's proposal. Not Twisted Legacy's proposal. I believe he was basically calling Squeesh out for saying that Rosengard agreed which Rosengard did not agree to any rotation.

FTFY

Can't speak for RoE, but Apok leadership showed that to us and we discussed why we did not like it this morning.

So now you're back tracking and saying that Rosengard didn't approve of your proposed rotation? After initially saying that they did?

Point remains for the lockjaw proposal that Skyp ran with. The "downing" capability and playtime availability between TL and any other guild is vast and enables them to kill whatever they want. This wouldn't be a problem if they were decent human beings that cared about community. Though because they are a bunch of monopolizing egotistical holier than thou players, DBG and every other guild knows it would not change the raid scene much with that many FFA slots.

Whether it favors one guild or not, I won't argue if it does. I will say that Roshen did say that the Lockjaw rotation is fine so Skyp proposed the same rotation as Lockjaw only for Apok to say they did not like it. That is within Apok's right if they did not like it. However, for Apok to go to RoE (who has yet to kill any raid mob on this list) and create an agreement and supposedly claim that Rosengard agreed the rotation is wrong.
As it stands, Apok likes the current rotation but the other two guilds that have raided TL and RG do not like the rotation. So you're saying that 1/3rd of the 3 guilds that have killed raid mobs dictates the raid scene? I hope it works itself out. I liked the idea that was thrown around by Rokuthy where he believes that RoE should have to kill Nagafen to join the rotation and they should be able to sign up to get a shot at it. RoE being able to discuss raid matters and instantly join the raid rotation after not killing any of the targets is a smack in the face to guilds like RoI (who killed Naggy), False Prophecy, and Ceaseless who have cleared just as much content as RoE has.

I'm smart enough to know a few things. Rosengard's proposal wasn't agreed on by Apok or RoE because it didn't play into the wheel house of Apok, they couldn't compete on a competitive level so they used RoE as a political stepping stone to get leverage into the rotation; I applaud that move. In a couple weeks you will see RoE undergoing rapid back peddling after they realize the rotation isn't in their guilds best interest.

At the end of the day, if you're going to have a rotation it needs to be as mutually beneficial for all players on the server, or it shouldn't exist at all. The issue was casual guilds are never going to be able to get into the rotation, guess what... they still aren't. Even if they somehow get lucky enough to enter the rotation, they're likely going to get flushed out in a week anyways due to bad timing of windows.

Presently rapid changes are already happening to the agreement after they realized how easy it is to enter the rotation. The entire goal of this rotation was for Apok to maximize their raid kills with the least amount of effort.

I will say this though, welcome to day 1 of the rotation. Time to sit back and enjoy as this all unfolds.

Skyp's proposal had a fair amount of designated kills vs. competition kills. DBG stated from the start that they did not want to remove all competition by instancing raid targets. When Inny loot started to go to alts/rot, agreements were made with other guilds so they could enjoy Inny loots. The majority of Sky hasn't been touched by us for quite a bit.

To say we're indecent human beings is not only false, but libel.

No at all, i'm saying that I saw the proposed rotation format by Rosenguard this morning as well as the PREVIOUS TOTALLY DIFFERENT ITERATION of the confirmed one we see here. Rosenguard leadership shows up in TeamSpeak. 5 hours later this thread comes up. If Rosenguard didn't have a say in this, why in the world did the whole thing get rewritten? There is no evidence of Rosenguard disagreeing with it, only TL people saying they do. Honestly I may be wrong. It's just that all evidence points to the contrary. And if Rosenguard is really against it, they sure are being hella quiet about it.

The first list of traits are not supposed to be negative in nature but rather my perspective as to why you are so successful at end game content. I do not believe skill is a factor. It is purely the monopolization of loot, your admitted 24/7 availability and mobility, and your like minded elitist roster. I can't believe you deny the Mage boxing that your entire guild was founded on and completed 100% of its firsts with. Without your Mage army you wouldn't have the farming and zerging capabilities youve shown the rest of the server for the past few months.

As attuned to your guild as you think you are, you may want to ask your leadership what took place tonight. Representation of TL, RoE, and Apok joined a chat channel to talk about some changes (the naggy gatekeeper change) and talk about the rotation. Bonlgon (Guild leader of Rosengard) joined the channel before heading to work to tell the channel that he did not agree to anything.

Reading the initial raid rotation proposal, I didn’t agree with it but as a guild we were willing to go with it, despite the glaring question of what the qualification was for being included in the initial rotation. And yes, I realize that 20 pages of comments were bound to have some kind of an effect, but the ‘instant fix’ that occurred in response to a former TL member killing the gatekeeper mob too quickly seems a little flawed.

The first proposal allowed for a possibility of new guilds notifying their intention to kill a gatekeeper, doing so, and being allowed into raid rotation. Mind you these gatekeeper bosses are unquestionably easier than the major 4 raid targets, and they have a relatively short respawn cycle but most importantly they are not major raid targets for the guilds already in the rotation.

The changes made to the proposal, where the gatekeeper mob is now Nagafen on a scheduled free for all day (Which is only 1 of 5 spawns?), will be a huge restriction on new guilds getting into the raid rotation. And I think if Nagafen is the gatekeeper the guilds in the rotation now should have to show any proof of when they killed Nagafen already.

Overall even TL’s proposal was better than the approved one and in truth Rosengard Guild seems to have the best proposal in general.

I just hope the rush to have a raid rotation in place doesn’t land us with something that is going to cause way more problems than it fixes. Nonetheless however this gets hashed out, tell me exactly who I have to signup with.

Zeksy
<False Prophecy>

It's ok to disagree with the rotation. Daybreak didn't support the rotation because everyone agreed on it. They support the rotation because it's fair.

fair to whom exactly?

Whether or not anyone agrees with it, it is absolutely not fair at all. False Prophecy, Ceaseless, and Reign of Insanity have killed just as much content as Reign of Eternity has. However, their guilds are excluded from the rotation. The fair thing would be to remove them from the rotation until they can sign up to kill the Gatekeeper. Just like False Prophecy, RoI, Ceaseless and other guilds that have intentions on raiding have to sign up.

Edit: Daybreak supports the rotation because it's easy for them to wipe their hands of this entire mess. They are too busy to know the intricacies that come along with all the guilds of this server. Apok and RoE exploited Daybreak's inexperience with the server's raiding scene.

Check out our DKP site that shows our current raid roster. Add up those numbers. Those are INDIVIDUAL people. Including applicants, that's potentially 150 unique humans sitting at a computer screen. Remove your mage army/bot army/hacking mindset from this thread. Claiming we rely on mage armies to kill targets is false information.

So you're saying you had 4+ days to talk about it, and you're not talking about it until the rotation is in place.

Mage army was used for the first two kills of mobs... thats about it. Within 4 days, we had almost an entire raids worth of level 50's of all classes, including 3 warriors! We dont zerg anything, unless you count bringing boxes to a sock while we're going to be having a dps race as a zerg. We've often done things with far under 72 people(Including buffed Vox with 44, and Buffed Nagafen with 60ish), both of which have wiped Apok/Rosengard when they were sitting at over 80 members strong.

If you do not believe skill has anything to do with it, you're lieing to yourself. The main "issue" people say they have is they havn't had time to learn the encounters and to see what they need to do. They're making this arguement with 16 year old content. Knowing the content is really a skill, but then they switched the content completely, and we're still doing it, without zerg forces.