Dev: Camp Rules on TLP

Bye bye Vulak ce la vie~

Why not join me in the idea I posted about earlier? Max level people with nothing else to do since raid mobs are gone or not able to get them because they are being blocked join up and use this new DPS race rule and run of the RMT or other undesirables that permanently lockdown named mobs.

Now, this part is a fair point. If I address scripting this will become an [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] thread. However, I do believe that 6 players deserve the loot more than 2 players who arrived 5 minutes sooner (6 players' worth of effort is a lot more than the effort of 2 + 5 minute earlier arrival). To elaborate, if there is one group doing an item camp and one group waiting, come on, just wait for them. But if it's permacamped? If there are 50 people all wanting to do the same mob, online right this moment and in the zone? That's an untenable situation for which DPS racing is a remedy.

However - you say "someone looking to harass your gameplay session"; that implies you are personally a target. I don't know if you are truly suggesting that you are personally a target or if you are trying to suggest that you are personally being harassed even if the mob/loot is the actual target. Assuming the former, though:

Easy test on this to see if you are personally being targeted for harassment:

1. Find a place that has exp-giving mobs, but no loot mobs, and exp there for a while.

2. Find a place that has a valuable loot dropping mob and camp it.

In the case of the first one, unless the zone is so overcrowded that no one can find anything to kill without taking it from others (which might happen from time to time due to extreme overall overcrowding), you'll find you rarely run into any issues. In the case of the second, you'll definitely experience issues. Either way, the statistical tendency to only see these issues on the loot mobs proves that they aren't targeting you, but the loot.

Has that been announced somewhere?

Well under the new rules, you should be committed to staying around and fighting DPS races for your friends, since that's the only thing that DBG is willing to do for them.

I however propose that DBG follows the rules that have existed for 15-16 years and served to protect the rights of the weakest players - not those that pay to win with more accounts, more scripted characters, and the hardest of the hardcore gear.

I agree they should reinstate the rules - however I personally have a strong distaste for stealing things from others, even for my friends. Wrong is wrong - period.

I used to not have ANY ethics in how I gamed - I changed that around a decade ago, and I find it pretty deplorable to diverge from being ethical anymore.

It sucks when rules and ethics run in a different direction from each other.

[I do have some plans to help them skip out on any pickiness over camps however - since I can do that without hurting other players]

I'll agree with you to some extent here. If the two players are unable to consume the content, then that is what would have been called tollbothing on Prexus and it wasn't allowed. If they were able to hold the camp though, then I would revert to my earlier view - they got their first, and in life when you get something first, it's yours.

If you are in the camp, killing the mobs, it is your gameplay session. It's funny how many people on this thread are willing to rule-lawyer about camp recognition, but the simple fact is that you can't have a conversation about Everquest without using the word. I tried to explain this thread to my girlfriend the other day. I tried to do it without using the word camp. I couldn't do it. I'm willing to bet that you've claimed a few camps in your lifetime.

It's very simple.

DPS racing on group content encourages bad game play, antisocial behavior, aggresive, and ungamesmanlikeship behavior. It leaves the majority of people without any valid defense or recourse. It renders individual effort and time spent meaningless. Historically, this is not group content in Everquest.

The original PNP and engagement rules encourages etiquette, social behavior, gamesmanship, and fair play. It leaves the majority of people with a valid defense or recourse. It rewards individual behavior and time spent. Historically, this is group content in Everquest.

I respect that you've picked your side. Just remember what it entails.

I agree with you Vaclav. I will be helping my friends too. When I played on Live on Prexus, I went by the name Celeritum, I was far more aggressive and a bit of a , especially on thesteelwarrior. I have mellowed out a lot over the past years. I find this change in rules to be deplorable and I find stealing from others is also wrong.

I don't understand how DBG feels this decision was appropriate. We are paying customers for a service. We don't deserve to be thrown to the wolves.

Boy after reading this... You guys really going to make me miss the good old days when 95% of people playing EQ were civil to each other... They respected other people camps and even waited in LINE for the camp... Most servers had rotations for most raid mobs or zones aka NToV rotations... Kinda sad in 15 short years the playerbase as turned into entitlement players or RMTers out to make a quick buck...

I'm announcing it now for DB since they're understaffed and stuff.

I actually logged into the Beta last night and directed the general chat to this thread.
You had your predictable group of people that were for the change and those that were against it. Of those that were for it, some were acting in a quite toxic manner (shocking).

One of the developers stated, "It's pretty funny how people rejoice in the chance to be horrible."

Snipped for brevity only -

We were going to be thrown to the wolves anyway, and had they left the PnP but unenforced, it would have been a shield of words that the wolves quickly realized was toothless.

That said, if Daybreak was willing to apply the new rules to raids only, I would be more than happy to argue in favor of leaving PnP in place for group content. After all, anyone so hardcore as to actually want to take someone's group camp should really be applying their enthusiasm to the endgame, and NOT against casuals in group zones.

Here's an idea...we know there's going to be enough players for two servers, we just don't know why they are resisting a second one (or if we do, I missed it). Why don't they do one of two things:

1. Open a second server now and simply tag one of them as Hardcore preferred, essentially asking hardcore players to flock to it. They still won't enforce first in force or engage on either, but for the most part, hardcore players looking for glory will go to the hardcore server.

2. Start off with one server and then 2 months later,Daybreak identifies the top 6 guilds and force-transfers them to the Hardcore server (if a player has a character in one of those guilds, the entire account goes to that server). At the same time, a 1 week free transfer period is opened to allow unguilded alt accounts, and whoever else wants to go, an opportunity to go.

It's tangential, but I think it's a good opportunity to point out what I think they'll be doing with EQN. I'll go ahead and tag this as my speculation since things are subject to change or they might have intentionally left people in the dark, but I think they're going to make that game so easy and quick to progress, that even the weakest of EQ players will feel unchallenged. I'm telling you guys, if you want to keep playing EQ1 for the next 20 years, fine, but Daybreak isn't making EQN for us. The reason I'm telling you this is because if you're here in TLP, you probably aren't following EQN and making yourselves heard.

I agree with you. And I'm not against enforcing DPS racing against contested raid content because to me, that's more in line with the only fair way to resolve contested raid content. But not for group content.

I'm all for two servers. We both know that hardcore players will flock to both servers. But giving them a server to become invested in, it will free up a lot of content on the second later server.

Thanks for the conversation Hateseeker. Even if we disagree with certain principles I respect your ability to conduct the conversation in a good manner.

The root of the problem honestly, why is this not even considered? What are they going to do when the server is full and paying people can't log on....I mean, it happened before. "Don't worry, half the people will leave in a month, you can play then" I mean, mind boggling......

Seems we keep going in circles... they have stated they will not police everyday content... period end of discussion for good or bad its FFA

They are not going to budge, there is no instancing in zones, they are not going to listen.

The only thing we can do is post and show our displeasure at the decision. They haven't locked this thread yet. The general chat last night over this rule change was mostly outrage. For good reason, when even staff members are critical of it.

We're talking about two kinds of instancing. I'm talking about raid instancing, you're talking about applying their newbie instancing to upper level zones.

While raid instancing won't directly affect RMT of group gear, it will indirectly, as many players realize that even if it take 2-3 months, eventually they will be able to earn good raid gear through gameplay and don't need to buy group stuff.

Some people who want absolute shortcuts will still do it, that's never going to be eliminated.

My advice to people who want the freedom to use DPS racing; use it only in raids, and in group content only as a last resort to resolve legitimate issues. Here's an analogy you may all appreciate: Right now, camp disputes are low on Daybreak's aggro list - be careful, as there's no aggro meter on this one to tell you when we've gone too far. For all we know, so many people will subscribe that they suddenly have the funds to hire a GM or two...

That is all I am still here for. The damage may have already been done though. My hope is that corrections can be made. If it doesn't happen by release I will just move on.

By release is too soon I would think, i'd say give it a month or two and see how things are, if there is any changes announced or not then decide.