AC vs ACv2?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Sirene_Fippy, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. Random_Enchanter Augur

    what the question that should be asked now is; "Does the Hagi end up adding more migitation (though AC and dodge%) than Hstr (though sheild ac as shown) or HDex (though riposte and parry)"
    And to your point, untill we know how defensives in EQ work this realy wont be answered with any more certainty than it has. It only backs up the "AC is king" croud.
  2. taliefer Augur

    i am not saying it changes anything. in fact im saying its a pretty trivial matter.

    i have always used augs with highest raw ac first, then go for the groups of 25 Hagi/dex as applicable. my point was really this doesnt change anything for alot of people in practical application, depending on what weight you put on the various stats. in practice, most augs used have a decent amount of both ac and Hstats, so its a pretty trivial matter even if you are a tank prioritizes Hstats over AC.

    the discussion of displayed ac vs actual ac has always made my mind melt because it has almost no practical use.
  3. Tearsin Rain Augur

    the softcap has to do with how much AC you get per point from an item or buff, not on how well you mitigate with the AC that you have.
    200 rAC is 200 rAC no matter your class, 5000 rAC is 5000 rAC no matter your class.
    where the softcap comes in is how much worn/buffed AC is required to get to those rAC values.

    this is incorrect, hDex increases your parry and riposte chance but does not increase your dodge chance.
    hagi increases your dodge chance, however.

    in theory - i still want to get confirmation on this.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  4. Neodraykl Elder

  5. Iila Augur

    Hagi's value against the 100% strikethrough mobs could be higher than the other stats. If the effects of avoidance AC is linear, then the percent of misses attributed to Hagi would be easy to figure out to see the returns on that. But is it linear? I don't know!
  6. fransisco Augur

    1. rAC is the wrong way to look at things. It is a number without context. It has a different value to a warrior than a druid due to soft cap returns. 500rAC to a warrior is worth more than 700rAC to a druid. Its like saying I earned 10,000 today. Without the context (dollars or cents), it doesn't mean much.
    2. You are wrong. hDex has no impact on these calculations. It effects how often defensive skills fire. It has zero impact on mitigation or avoidance (not avoidance skills, but getting missed).
    2. hStr effects on mitgation HAVE been confirmed. It will never get more confirmed. Dzarn said he crawled though the code and gave a detailed explanation about how it works.
  7. Axxius Augur

    Wow, that iksar bonus. Mass tank racechange to iksar inc... :eek:
  8. Fooba Augur

    This is actually old news. Agi clusters of 10 have been known about even on raid bosses that cant be dodged.
  9. Trajet D'Or Augur

    The choices are pretty streamlined baring a tank going to the extreme of 0ac augs.

    Blood-Soaked Spellstone - 28ac 8hDex
    Tarnished Stone - 35ac 5hDex

    Every hDex with at least 1ac is either pretty unarguably a good aug to use or clearly worse than one or both of those augs. Those are pretty much the only 2 hDex augs you can have a credible 2-sided argument over.

    hAgi has a much bigger middle class: 32/8, 33/8, 34/8, 35/8, 33/7, 37/7, 38/7, 35/6 and 36/6 but using 5 of those augs instead of five 40ish AC augs is still a pretty small ~30ac for ~35hAgi trade off.

    Heartwood Splinter - 28ac 7hAgi
    Polished Rockomancy Diamond - 35ac 5hAgi

    The middle class is large enough that Aalaron the most hAgi biased tank on Magelo uses neither.

    AC the first questionable augs are 40 and 39ac with no hAgi, hDex, hSta or HP. Sure some people wouldn't use Tumbled Jasper, Sliver of Fear or Stone of Dark Sorcery with no hAgi or hDex but you can't really craft a credible argument to suggest a tank isn't making a good choice when they use a 44 or 45ac aug.

    Inflexible Scale - 42ac
    Double Pronged Grendlaen Incisor - 40ac

    Outside of a strange choice within lore groups that's your AC priority pair.

    13 hDex vs 12 hAgi vs 19ac - have fun if you want to argue which of those 3 pairs is best. Or 16ac if you want to rubber stamp Inflexible and compare to Keystone Garnet and Double.

    If there was more variety to augs and people could choose 5ac/20hDex or 10ac/18hAgi it would be far more relevant, instead while pursuing that extra 1% mitigation is a noble cause you're getting into unparseable differences and gut instinct unless you're arguing with a tank using 0ac augs just to absolutely max out hAgi and quite frankly you're best off not talking to that person unless you have to raid or group with that person.
    Iila likes this.
  10. taliefer Augur

    also, its nice to finally see that the iksar ac bonus is in fact not totally useless "displayed ac only" as hadbeen widely accepted. its still fairly minimal in the grand scheme of things. a value of 35 in a pool of roughly 3000 to 4000. pretty much an unparseable difference all things being equal, but its at least in the calculation somewhere.
  11. Fooba Augur

    Basically, until raid bosses get fixed, hagi > hdex
  12. Tharrg Augur

    So what I expect to see is lots of Drunk Iksars running around
    Shimmerleaf, Fenthen and guado like this.
  13. Iila Augur

    Yeah, the 100% strikethrough bosses are stupid because they invalidate a huge amount of gearing choices.
  14. Moklianne Augur

    Being a tank sounds complicated. Glad I prefer healing/dps classes.
    Sinestra, Andarriel and Fenthen like this.
  15. Astran Elder

    Being drunk (having a drunk index > 20) inhibits avoidance. It never increases it. There is no level of drunkenness that's ever better than being sober.
  16. Triconix Augur

    except all my raid parses show me parrying and riposting raid mobs, not dodging. I'll stick with my dex
  17. Kelefane Augur

    So is there no such thing as "Fake AC"? Lots of people have said over the years that Iksar AC is fake AC for example. Also, the AC given from Hagi is fake AC as well. The AC from these mean nothing.

    Is that thought process flawed now?
  18. fransisco Augur

    Thats right, there is no "fake ac". AC from Hagi is real ac, just like the iksar ac bonus
    Kelefane likes this.
  19. Fooba Augur

    You sure thats not flash of anger?
  20. fransisco Augur

    aye, I thought there were warrior disciplines that let you use defensive skills against 100% strikethrough mobs