Non-Raiding Necromancers

1) I am a necro, well I was until I retired 2 months ago after getting into beta seeing what they have in store for the game in general as far as tuning and direction of the game in addition to seeing/hearing about all the class nerfs both current and upcoming.

B) Necros do get passive twincast for dots, its called mirrored pestilence passive 3%.

Third) again if you play better by magicially getting passive twincast rates of 9-10% and get focus effects to always be 55% or higher we can offset all of these nerfs very easily.

In conclusion) Sarcasm, there is no way to play better and make passive twincast rates go higher nor make focus effects average higher. This was a reference to an argument Xnao and I had 2-3 years ago regarding swift dot nerfs impact.

Thanks for the correction. It procs so seldom, that I didn't even notice that I had it...

I found the above exchange humorous thx

Based on some parse data on this forum it would appear they have improved necro fast kill dps via things like swarm pets beyond just the swift dots. Being able to chain that spell and the swifts seems optimal. I never bothered with the swarm spell much. Maintaining that spell weave over a duration seem rather cumbersome with the db nerf.

If the intent was to improve the grouping necro situation through the tweaks to their spell line up, then surely a mana reduction or fix needs to happen for db. You don't go two steps forward via spells and then take 10 steps back via aa.

Mana as a resource should be equal across all classes that use it. Maybe it is time for a utility spell like the wizard claw that will feedback different things.

1-2 tics of the aa pyre (promoting the use of more mana efficient dots)
2-3 tics of db
1-2 tics of a detriment (blind, heal debuff, high dmg dot)
1-2 tics of mind wrack
1-2 tics of old fashion rb
A proc of current expansions BP click
A proc of a current expansion dot

Alternatively they could also bump lich up a bit and replenish some of the other lost mana to grouping necros in another way that won't benefit raiders.

There have been quite a few suggestions that keep this nerf as is for raiders but that undo the harm to grouping and soloing. But the main issue I have with this change is in agreement with the bolded comment above. If mana is to be a resource for raiding necros then it needs to be a resource to all mana users. Don't single out a class or single subset of a class. Especially when its been shown a few times that deathbloom has been stagnated for 4 years already and that numerous equivalents have been granted to other classes since its inception, in some cases better.

To put it blunt if mana is to be a resource that is to be managed again (meaning you change what spells you use, how often you cast, how often you med, don't repeat the same process for every scenario: be it a 20 second fight or 5 minute fight) then changes need to apply to all mana users by adjusting all 15-20 factors that were mentioned 20+ pages ago, not just deathbloom. The only difference is necros by not having the ability to dump their mana for dps means that always have mana in the tank so they sit there looking guilty with mana most times. But other classes that can dump their mana for added rewards don't look guilty because they depleted their mana.


Dots and basically any other form of damage are completely different animals and should be treated as such.

I agree that it stinks that they nerfed DB, but my question is this...what about the quicken DB AA's that I purchased? I feel that if the base timer was changed to 10 minutes, then I should still get the benefit of these AA's and it be shortened as the quickened AA describes: 10% per rank @ 3 ranks. Are these AA's just broken forever or will this be fixed? I would prefer to have them work again, but if not then I feel these spent AA's should be refunded to everyone that purchased them.

"Quickened AA" speed up the cast time of the ability not the recast time, as in it might have taken 5 seconds to cast DB and now it only takes 3 seconds to cast. "Hastened AA" speed up the recast time and I don't recall us having DB recast shortened since the ability has only been stagnated or nerfed since its launch.

See Kurayami. It is posters like this that come in each day that keeps the flame of this thread going.

Yes Shiftee, DB was added at the same time that swift dots and swarm pets were introduced to the necro class. Nothing new there. They also added a 7 counter lifetap proc buff that necros could cast between pulls to up their dps 4 years ago as well. You have grouped with me numerous times and you never noticed me casting swarm pets over the past 4 years? Really?

I get what you are saying though, the whole back stepping and then improve. This is not the case here as Elidroth has had a vendetta against the necro class for a while now. The fact that only 1 class was singled out for their mana regen ability is also proof that they are not making mana a resource for all classes again.

Didn't he change Quiet Miracle to ? That would pretty much effect every caster. Also didn't they up the mana cost of wizard ethereals + remove the extra damage they did to raid mobs ? Seems to me they targeted more you just choose to ignore them facts.

Your posting toward me has quite a bit of frustration or resentment. I can't tell which.
Or maybe you are just misunderstanding me? I was offering constructive feedback. There was a recent parse posted on this forum showcasing abilities that highlighted the plight of your more mana efficient dots in the group game for faster paced groups. It would then appear that aristo is making spell efforts to alleviate this area of concern for necros setting the mana costs higher with the idea of db as it was though... he did make sure that the dps of these spells was sufficient to keep pace. And then elidroth is coming behind him and jacking up the balance. I was pointing out that the systems devs are not on the same page.

And if they don't want all the eggs in the db basket I offered up an idea of a possible compromise. The new set of aa are probably going to be released in the near future. Now seems like a good time to figure something out otherwise you'll just eat this nerf. If you can come up with something with a better RvR Eli might go for it in conjunction with db. Or just hope he comes to his senses and reverts the change which the devs are not often prone to do.

If the thread got bumped and I participated in an open discussion then I will continue to try and make constructive posts. Because yes we grouped a lot and so you should remember I have a necro.

The Quiet Miracle change is relatively stupid as well. You will have a limited amount of clerics in a raid with a limited amount of Quiet Miracle casts. Why are the devs imposing strategy limitations on a raid dictating who can and can't receive these limited amount of QM casts?

Mana costs didn't go up on Wizard ethereals.

Yes, they did. Not with CotF, but with Shadows of Fear they got increased.

Slasher, again, you're comparing apples to oranges. You should do your homework before you start commenting on a thread about a class you clearly dont understand.

This is a thread about non-raiding necromancer's Slasher, understand?

Druids were told we were going to get an active mana regen ability over a year ago. Then nothing. Then we were told we will never get one ever ( being the only mana based class in the whole game that lacks one ). Does this count as being singled out? I guess I sorta feel more singled out than the necros in the active mana regen department.

Your "vendetta against the necro class" looks like a mere sandbox scuffle. I wish I had the problems necros are going through. I understand the issue, and I am against the DB nerf as is. I just feel like this is one of the biggest mountains made up of a mole hill I have ever seen.

The word Efficiency is being used a lot. We can talk about efficiency in how much mana a spell costs or we can talk about how much damage/mana a spell actually does to a mob.

Fact is that Swift Dots are the most efficient damage/mana spells we have for fast pulling groups, followed by the swarm pets. Necros use other strategies to be efficient too like pre dotting mobs that are already in camp.

Are we suggesting just adjusting the mana costs of these spells because I would be for that too.

Having such flashbacks of the 90+ page 1800+ replies swift dot nerf thread from a few years ago. Where all the knowledgable non necros informed necros how to play their class, how that change wasn't a big deal, how necros were making a mountain out of a mole hill, how dots work, how being able to solo this or kill that means you should stink in groups, how the dps dynamic of the game should be. Regardless of what data was shown, regardless of being completely wrong, regardless of the harm it did. Good times.

You forgot songsa posting wild claims about losing burst parses to necros.

I already stopped playing.But i still read the boards when i get the itch to play.This thread works as a Nice Long cancer picture of why not to smoke.Think the reason why all the new post about this topic or related to this topic are being dump here is because this is SOE trashcan.The people who have some infleunce to change this dont read this anymore.
Now its more the challenge to get the thread pages up to 100 for what?
I already voted with my wallet...

How many group players do fast kill groups? Without having to pay for them? That seems a few tiers above "casual". Typically it is a raid player thing since they have the gearing/survivability and the knowledge. Good fast kill group tends to favor a raid tank or a raid alt with knowledge. That or a swarm/instokill class. The classes lagging out zones mass pulling? Not necros. They tend to not be in those groups either. Most dye in the wool group necros are not going to be concerned with fast kill groups since casual implies more control over limited time and they won't be plugged in with people who put much emphasis on quick grinding. Group players just don't cook the books like raiders do since they don't need to be max AA/level in a few days after expac launch

. Group necros would fair better lately doing missions, just like anyone else in the group game, since it is the most bang for your buck. Missions = gear/spells/currency AND exp. Both as reward and for mobs killed. Why would a group player settle for less? It remains to be seen if group necros would be shunned from those missions but it would stink if they were. Either way, group players don't need to think like raiders. Raiders smash and grab the group game so they can get out of it what they need for raiding. Its just a means to an ends. For a grouper, the group game IS the ends.

I only bring this up because most raid necros I know never group. They raid and then you never hear from them. Even if they are on, they won't speak in guild chat, won't ask for help and they don't lfg. They handle business on their own and if they need help they will ask people they trust in private...which is a rare honor usually. They never resort to asking anyone in public for help because that is just not their style. The typical necro personality is a soloer. Yes, it is a generalization but since EQ was launched, a well played necro did not need anyone else other than their pet to help them outside of raids.

So why would they want to do a fast kill group, when they can do far better in a pet group or solo? If DB is the junk kicker, its for the solo necro who wants to keep a good steady pace. They don't have anyone helping them out as far as adps or mana regen other than themselves.

Why would you think this is even? In mana spent sure... but in damage done? Not even close. Infact, casting the switft dots last is likely gonna mean they won't even do their 2nd or 3rd tick. In a group where the necro is complented by one other serious DPS class (like mage or wiz), you'll be lucky to cast those 5 spells on a single mob... let alone have them last full duration.

Yet group necros continue to come here and voice their displeasure. It is effecting them adversely.