Non-Raiding Necromancers

Come on, guys... It's only a 392 mana per tick nerf. Why are you guys complaining so much?

Welcome to mage level mana regen.

^ This.

Guess I may as well share my experience with this change. I don't raid - I did till I put down the game back in '07 but since I came back in the last year or so I play with my friends and solo. That is not to say I don't like to group - for the first month or so when I came back I would sit LFG for an hour or so on my monk get tired of waiting and call it a night. So instead of doing nothing I would log on my necro and actually get to play.

There were comments about necros can solo some T1/T2 names - with some work and lots of deaths I have farmed every T4 piece for my monk and my necro moloing with the pet tanking. That is not to say I simply walked in and was handed all the T4 armor pieces - over the period I was working this I lost over 20% regular experience from deaths (that is with 96% rez except the few times 100% was available). Whether or not you think I should be able to get T4 group pieces (my opinion is I shouldn't they are *group* pieces after all!), I couldn't get a group on the monk and I was looking for something I could do.

With that in mind I'm guessing this modification technically shouldn't target me as I don't raid. However, upon playing last night with a shaman friend the change was obvious. As it was just her and me I wasn't using fast dots, just regular root rotting but after about 20 minutes I was oom (death bloom and blood magic used). I can't say if that is what is intended - as I stated I'm not a raider so my understanding upon reading up on this modification is I'm not the target. Also, 25 minutes is nothing to scoff at, but it is different then before as I used to be able to keep up by using both death bloom and blood magic previously.

If there is any question as to whether this modification will impact being able to solo T4 names, I can put those to rest that this modification would have no effect on that. Most of them last long enough that a death bloom is required during the fight but I've never hit it twice in a fight so it not refreshing as soon wont change that.

I have cancelled my subscription, but I had been thinking about that before this modification came out, it just helped with the decision.

Piestro. The new expansion is more or less tailored around a 2-3 person group with mercs (ie: Heroic Missions as stated in the expansion description). There are not enough Chanters to go around to bandaid the now crippled Necros mana regen.

I realize that you guys (Dev's) have gotten alot of flak for this change, but it is justified flak. This nerf is just way too harsh especially since it was done without good reason. Necros went from second from the top on mana regen, to second from the bottom in one fell swoop. This is as disappointing as it is frustrating.

• What was the reason for the nerf in the first place (other than class envy)?
• Why was the nerf so severe?
• Why after all the years we have the ability, this is all of the sudden an issue that had to be dealt with?

Please help us understand what is going on.

Let's put this in perspective. We can buy back, through AAs, about 6 of these mana points per tick with this expansion. It will only cost us about 72 AAs (don't have exact numbers but I think 12 AAs per point is about right) to do so.

72 AAs to get 6 points of mana per tick...

392 mana per tick lost with a stroke of their nerf sword.

Seems pretty futile, doesn't it?

Do you really think it can be explained in any rational way?

Remember when our pets were nerfed about 6 months back? With this new expansion, I really have to ask what the point of that was. They expaned FOUR AA lines that were specific pet strength -- Companion's Agility, Companion's Durability, Companion's Blessing and one other, I can't remember the name of.

They seem to have no idea what they are doing or where they are trying to take this game...

They extended those AA lines because they also extended CA and CS. Those lines are designed to be extended in parallel with each other.

Devs mainly nerf in reaction to raids and what happens in them; when pet tanking comes back for raids, you're going to see pets getting nerfed again.

That isn't even a very good excuse. That they have been paired in the past doesn't mean they must be paired in the future.

Are they nerfing us so that we'll buy AA's to get that same power back again? A nerf should be because there is specific reason for something to be nerfed. Nerfing should be a last resort. Was it a last resort if they let us increase the power of the thing that they nerfed 6 months later?

Again, since the Death Bloom (392 mana per tick) nerf won't affect raids...it seems they will have a hard time explaining this one.

BTW, this is also just plain false. Companion's Agility and Companion's Durability started with SoF. Combat Agility goes all the way back to SoL. Companion's Blessing was updated for SoD, but the others were not. Fortify Companion (which I believe is the last one) also follows a completely different upgrade path. Compare for yourself, here.

That wasn't much of a nerf. It had been live on the beta server with people playing and they never noticed for over a month. It wasn't even mathematically significant to normal content, you can't really tell without extended parsing.

Additionally pets were modified to be in line with content 6 months ago. Further ranks are in line with where the team wants pets to be now, which is slightly increased in power. There are a number of opportunities in Call of the Forsaken for players to increase in power, think things like new gear. A small increase in pet power is also included in that overall power increase with these abilities.

So, let me get this straight... You absolutely, positively, had to do a nerf to Necromancer pets, that was essential for game balance 6 months ago, that Necromancers wouldn't even notice... And now, those pets are getting a boost with upgrades from 4 lines of AAs that help pet tanking ability.

Wow... I guess you proved me wrong. You guys have great rationalizations for your nerfs.



Please do continue. Let me know how a 392 mana per tick nerf was warranted and not just pulled out of someone's hind end.

You're not getting the same power back. The pet nerf wasn't just AC/HP, it was also the aegis spells that used to scale infinitely but now has a damage cap. Whatever the case, the cause for that nerf was pets tanking raids. The devs specifically said so.

The original nerf was a 80% healing debuff for 5 minutes instead of the timer change, explicitly so that you won't be able to use Death Bloom freely on raids. It is less obvious after all the change iterations, but again the goal was to lower necro mana regen on raids.

The side effect on grouping, well that's just icing.

Still doesn't make sense that they nerfed the AC/HP...

Actually, it was originally set to 90% for 2 minutes (not 80% for 5 minutes). Then 80%. Then 60%. Also a ridiculous nerf not in line with the class. How much play testing do you think went into that? Do you think that it was well thought out?

I would suggest the same amount of thought was put into the 392 mana per tick nerf.

And, that it was changed from one ridiculous thing to another ridiculous thing, doesn't justify it.

"For taking a cookie, I'm going to chop off your hand"
"That's ridiculous"
"Okay...I'll chop of your nose instead"
"Well, okay then..."

First of all, we've had this ability since Underfoot. Maybe then deathbloom was a controversial AA because of where necro's mana pool was roughly at. But now we are 4 expansions away from Underfoot. Thats almost 4 years. Our mana pools have greatly increased since then. Never once has death bloom had an increase in how much mana it gave. Did we complain? NO because either way we were still worth playing and it gave us back our right to contend with the classes that parsed really well and not only that but worth having in group content because we didnt have to med every couple of mobs.

Now here we are 4 expansions later and you want to nerf something that was intended for where necros were 4 expansions ago. How can you say we need NERFED NOW. We get 16k mana back every 3 mins. Other classes have many ways more than 1 with the ability to get mana back and hell some aren'teven on the same lock outs! Death Bloom clearly isn't as great as it was 4 expansions ago its just something we use to get through as much as we can but surely we do not have infinite mana. If you want to really punish those who do you are looking at the wrong class. I have been playing necro since before Underfoot. Death bloom revitalized this class hands down!

If anything we deserve an INCREASE in mana from deathbloom to make up for the difference of mana pool from 4 expansions worth of gear upgrades and such. But we don't need it right now. Maybe in another expansion or two will death bloom really become a useless aa compared to our spell's mana cost and regen.

But right now this AA is not an issue AT ALL in any form. And upgrading our pets is not a good trade for a 10 mins refresh timer. We do more damage than our pet does and if we cant put out the dps we are basically just sitting there on one mob forever because we are too afraid to run low on mana because our death bloom takes forever to repop.

I would gladly take the heal debuff that was first considered than a 10 min refresh timer. You know why? cause least then i keep doing what i have been for 4 expansions that has had no consequence in being overpowered. We are by far not overpowered we were just given something to make this class playable again both in group content and in raids.

If your eyeing classes that are overpowered look somewhere else.

Pyemia wins.

And btw this guy did say it the best...

Also throwing in here real fast... Piestro you mentioned earlier in this forum that "death bloom is not 70% of our mana regen."

Exactly... it falls between (depending on level and your gear) somewhere between 10% to say 25%. So why does it need to be nerfed again?

So, I logged in to the forums for the first time in years just to comment on how ridiculously idiotic these changes are. Like Pyemia said, it's not nearly as bad as the initial idea (a healing debuff? Really?), but it was an entirely unnecessary change to an ability whose power has been decaying for years through the inflation of mana pools and other regen capabilities.

it needed nerfed because they "think" they knew what they were trying to accomplish, minus looking at the BIG GLARING RAID BUFFS/SONGS/MBG'S picture that's been reiterated WAY to many times to them.

nerf from 3 minute to 5 or 6 minutes might have been reasonable. 10 minutes is NOT.