What should a pet be allowed to do in Everquest?

No it wasn't what you answered, but obviously you can't see that so the point is moot. When asked how many calories a value meal should have the appropriate answer isn't "It's still filling with less calories".

The bigger deal is that they pushed through nerfs they never informed the mage community about, and never tested. It sets a precedent. Sure, pets are still 'okay' now but given that they've listened to the whiners already, it's only a matter of time before those same people whine again to get pets even further nerfed with no mage input.

You saw it in the other thread. People who are still not satisfied with how pets tank and won't be satisfied till they are utter trash that their bazaar twinked paladin and SK boxes are able to walk all over.

My 2cp;

I've played a Beastlord since 2001, he has about 4k AA's, almost lvl 100, and I've solo'd, molo'd, grouped, bot grouped, bot merc grouped, raided, bot raided, casual raided, raided, and open raided. I don't play every day, but there were times when I nearly did. I grew up "the hard way" so to speak. I got my bumps and learned from them.

Since the first day I got my pet, I have used him to tank at one point or another. In the beginning when I first got my pet, he did ALL the tanking, including named when I was soloing. Sometimes I won, sometimes I lost, but he did the tanking.

When I started grouping more, he became DPS (and not the best either). He was frequently a liablility becuase back then there was no "pet hold", and he'd go chasing after something I was trying to run from.

When I started raiding, he was sometimes banned for being a "bad kitty" and going after the mob when AE's hit early.

When I started botting, my Beastlord was my main, and I had a bot cleric. I built my toon around being able to tank with my Beastlord, my pet was just some extra DPS, and the cleric bot kept us alive. Same thing when I started grouping with the bot cleric; I'd tank, the others (another BST, a MAG, and a RNG) would help me kill, and the cleric bot kept us all alive (usually ;-) ).

There were times when the MAG had to sick their pet on an add, and it did fine. There were times when I couldn't bot the cleric, so a trio of pet classes would go out, get some more pet classes, and we'd all have a pet/range group. I LOVED these groups becuase we could kick a lot of mob tail, and the swarms of pets were just amazing to watch as they engulfed that named mob and beat the pulp out of it.

Then my friends quit playing EQ, and I was back to just me and the bot cleric. That took forever to kill anything, so I got a MAG, and started to tri-box; me tanking and my pet DPS'ing, the MAG and it's pet dps'ing, and the cleri-bot healing. This worked well. I didn't have to depend on anyone else, and if someone else happened along and wanted to join, great.

Then mercs came along. HOLY COW!!! I could kill a LOT OF THINGS!!! Named, previous content's raids, heck, I was a KILLING MACHINE!!! The tank mercs sucked, but the pets were usually able to handle any named should the tank fall (again...). I usually won a fight with named, but not every time.

When I was raiding, sometimes (rarely) a MAG pet would end up polishing off the big guy or hold it for a minute or 2 while the MT was rez'd and buffed back up. We had some REALLY good players that had come from high-end guilds and joined our little hybrid-family-raiding guild.

So now today, I'm tri-boxing again, as my old guild had fallen into disrepair and we no longer raid. We get together when we can, but for the most part, I'm tri-boxin' my BST, MAG, & CLR. I'm killing things like I always have for my current level, including named, usually by letting the pets tank becuase frankly the merc tanks stink for this. Occasionally I'll invite a "tank" into my little group in Shard's Landing, but 9 out of 10 times, the "tank" can't "tank". The "tank" can barely keep up on the trash, let alone a named, and that's with a bot cleric AND a merc cleric healing, but my pet(s) can.

Sure, I have ran into a few "tanks" that don't fold like a wet paper towel during a fight with the named in Shard's Landing, but those are very few and far between, and, it's not JUST the tanks. I have a list of toons that I will never group with again becuase they sucked, and bad. And that's the real problem I have with today's group level lfg'ers. Either they don't have the skills, or they're not there becuase they're raiding. It's hard to find something as rare as a "good group tank" these days, I've been looking, and I can't find one that isn't already taken.

So what should I be able to do with a pet? Well, given the amount of practice, skills, and abilities that I've acquired over the years of playing, I'd say "Pretty much any group content there is!" given that I can bot 3 toons and have 3 mercs running. Should I be able to solo group named of current content? Absolutely, I did it in my 40's in Dawnshroud Peaks, my 60's in Bastion of Thunder, my 80's in Gyrospire Beza, and I should be able to do it in my 90's in Shard's Landing.

It will be felt by groupers/solo more however did the diminishment of power prevent the ability to solo/molo? The answer is no, it will probably prevent the mage pets from soloing 2-3 mobs tanking at once unless it has a cleric but it doesn't prevent them from soloing.

Is there a better solution for raiding? Probably

Just ran a test on live with several players... This is pre nerf...

EM 16, Level 99 Necromancer Pet... Warrior Class

BUFFS


Aegis of Kildrukaun AA

23683 Aegis of Kildrukaun NEC/254 MAG/254 3s 0s 360 n/a Pet 1: Absorb 8 Hits or Spells

Spectral Ward Rk. II Mitigation spell

14875 Spectral Ward Rk. II NEC/78 500 6s 36s T10 360+ n/a Pet Max Hits: 35 Incoming Hit Attempts
1: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 50%

Fortify Companion Mitigation AA

30643 Fortify Companion SHD/254 SHM/254 NEC/254 MAG/254 ENC/254 BER/254 3s 0s 100 n/a Pet
1: Decrease Damage Shield Taken by 58
2: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 58%
4: Absorb Spell Damage: 19%, Total: 160000
5: Absorb Melee Damage: 19%, Total: 160000
7: Increase AC by 66

Sigil of the Sundered Rk. II Pet Buff

35558 Sigil of the Sundered Rk. III NEC/97 500 4.5s 1.5s 600+ n/a Pet 2: Increase Hit Damage by 21%
3: Increase STR by 269
4: Increase Melee Haste by 85%
6: Increase AC by 86

Certitude Rk. II Cleric Buff

34146 Certitude Rk. II CLR/97 2938 9s 1.5s 1500+ n/a Single 1: Stacking: Block new spell if slot 3 is 'Max HP' and < 8912
2: Increase Max HP by 7912
3: Increase Current HP by 7912
4: Increase AC by 380
5: Stacking: Overwrite existing spell if slot 3 is 'Max HP' and < 8912

Bastion of Vie Rk. II Cleric Mitigation Buff

34179 Bastion of Vie Rk. II CLR/98 925 4s 1.5s 720+ n/a Single
1: Absorb Melee Damage: 10%, Total: 39880
6: Cast on Rune Fade: Light of Vie II

_______________________________________________________________________________

this is not a raid buffed pet but it is a raid pet...

/GU Legion in 3s, 195k @65000dps --- Tegila 195k @65000dps (100%)

Without Fortify Companion

/GU Legion in 13s, 149k @11461dps --- Purazz 149k @11461dps (100%)

Pet with no Buffs or Runes or Mitigation... Raid Ear Equipped

/GU Legion in 18s, 128k @7126dps --- Tegila 128k @7126dps (100%)

P.S. - Who truely solo's anymore? Maybe a Ranger using headshot to gind AA's, or a Necro who doesn't want to be bothered with a merc ganking aggro, but that's about it. There is no more soloing, so to say pet classes "solo" and pets "tank" better than a tank isn't an accurate assumption.

If you knew about magicians you would realize you don't tank 3 with 1 pet. You would be using a Garg pet to off-tank, so no that will not be effected.

Like I said this will be an 'I told you so' when the real nerfs start coming.

There are numerous better solutions for raiding, none of which require rune or stat nerfs.

These changes will make it so that only mage pets can tank current group content. I play a beastlord and solo often with a merc and can often fight 2 mobs at once pet tanks one and I tank one.

After these changes, I may not be able to do that at all due to nerf. Necros probably ditto. Mages are still uber and can probably still tank everything unless the nerf is major.

So this basically weakens pet classes other than mages a lot and still allows mages probably to pet tank all group content. SoE as usual decides to nerf across the board because of something one class can do (mages). My pet cannot tank with a merc very well right now, it will be horrible after this nerf comes. I will have to limit myself to possum pulling because more than 1 mob- pet cannot be healed fast enough to tank on its own and that sucks for my class.

After running tests on the Pet's HP with raid ear, without raid ear, etc... Seeing a 20 % decrease in HP will make VERY little difference when my pet is walking around with 150k hp self buffed.

All because a developer used seKret teK - having to do something that's random, those that tripped over the fact everyone didn't need a mask vs. OMM:
1. Kept it to themselves.
2. Had members that were concerned other guilds were beating the event with something a bit random too, but something they could complain about and interfer with other guild progress by playing the metagame.

Dare I say that on those occassions RoI, MS, or any other guild encounters random seKret teK - tank the mob while standing on a crack! - they might be better served by putting the info out there than having would be progression blockers complain that this class or that classes ability is OP.

That precisely what happened here Ronak - you might want to blot it out or ignore it but that's what keep others from suceeding player did to their guldmates. GJ.

I know enough about mages to know that with their aa's push comes to shove they can handle 3, not every pull though which is why I used the 2-3 without a cleric.

There probably are better solutions however you are looking to exascerbate the situation by literally nitpicking details as en example in my post when you know a mage can handle 3 in a tight spot but 2 would be a more accurate display of their tanking.

This nerf isn't going to stop mages from soloing/moloing group content, if you want to provide solutions for raiding then do so but saying the sky is falling for solo mages is innaccurate at this time.

I thought they said they halved the AC and HPs that the FOCUS gave the pets at em7 and scaled it up. That's a lot different then halving the BASE ac/hps, which would be an insane nerf.

If a raid has an exploit, then FIX THE EXPLOIT!! Pets have been this powerful for years now, balanced and enhanced every expansion. Why the sudden nerf, because of a couple stupid raids?? You can't use any other tactic other then warrior tank/cleric heal??

This game has been a nerf fest for the past year and even though I love playing EQ, i'm REALLY close to moving on. I'm not paying for 6 accounts being constantly frustrated with the changes to this game. I hope these changes don't make it to the live servers.

I was waiting for you to post, although not in this way /sad face.

However, EW is not a hard raid. You don't need secret cracks to tank mobs in or rocks to tank behind.

Most guilds could tell you their exact strat down to which heal spells were used and how many times and it would not work for guild A when guild X it worked fine for. Even with similar rosters. Each guild has different strengths and weaknesses. Telling a guild to do something one way could actually hinder that guild because they lack the skill in that area to make your strat work.

Except, of course, T3 and T4 mobs hit a lot harder.

You are very uninformed. Solutions were proposed numerous times. And this is what they came up with, is the issue.

So you play with Magicians who kill 3 mobs solo w/o using a garg pet? You do realize Aegis will be getting nerfed (and is on Test) so that they no longer block 16 hits. So no more Aegis to fall back on, Auspice of Shadows will cover 4 hits and Nefori will cover 8. But you know with 3 mobs beating on the pet Fortify will drop (it has a DMG limit) and so will Blessing in under a minute roughly. And w/o Garg pets (like you said in YOUR example) the DPs won't be there to kill them fast enough while trying to keep the pet a live.

Or you know you're lying and your friend is using a garg pet to off-set the incomming DMG.

I'm not worried about my ability to do named mobs with an end group game pet focus, I am however, VERY worried about how feasible it will be to tank tier 3 and even some of the tier 2 group missions with a pet now. A couple aspects in tier 2 group missions pushed group pets to their limits, I've seen a little bit of the tier 3 missions and there are a few parts of them that I am worried might be too much for a group focused pet now.

Raid focused pets will still be fine, I'm sure a pre-nerf raid focused pet will still be *slightly* stronger or at least equal in survivability to a pre-nerf group pet (estimating) Group pets however were pretty much pushed to their limits in tier 2 group missions.

It's still too early for us to say how bad this nerf will be for mages any by association the other classes, but I still fear it will be bad enough to make a couple of the lazily made copy paste raid versions of missions undoable by a group pet tank. If that happens I guess we'll see how serious they are about intentionally wanting to drive players off into retirement in preperation for the launch of EQ next - which clearly is their end game. To keep EQ on life support then kill us off when their new savior is ready to launch

My biggest beef I have with the Dev. team is we were flat out told that the upcoming nerfs would do absolutely nothing to the grouping game. This is a complete slap in the face, and a total disregard for player input and shows a complete lack of respect for the time we've put into testing and working on their products. It is a lazy and completely ineffective fix for the perceived problem of pets tanking raid mobs. It's really unfortunate that Beastlords and Necro's got dragged down along with mages, but hey, at least we'll have company.

I honestly don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this thread as our input has been mostly ignored and will continue to be. This thread will end up being locked just like the last one. Whatever, give me more of an excuse to not log on. Your game is old and it's really only the people that is keeping me around anyways.

You see that's what I'm talking about, i'm not lying, I said they have ways so manage to that add just not every pull. You are getting worked up and that is going to get this thread closed.

Anyway, mages are still soloing on test in RoF keep up the good fight piemastaj just realize once again the sky isn't falling.

Also it doesn't matter if suggestions were made in the past, today you are looking at proposed changes if you don't like them reiterate what was said in the past with clarity and purpose rather then trying to attack posters who aren't on "your side."

I think a lot of responders have answered the question in the topic, but not the questions in the original post.

I am still curious as to what EQ developers, and the community, feel about what content Cicelee... Joe Schmo... Suzy Q... and the others are able to do? What kind of mobs the five different kinds of magicians and their pets are able to tank?

And yes, to one of the first several posters- as a magician, which is intended to be a class with the capabilities to solo in the group game, I should be able to handle RoF and SoF group mobs including named *because* I essentially am a raider: with a current best-in-game raid pet focus, with all applicable pet AA at maximum, and a single account owner who can solely focus 100% of all of my efforts into maximizing my character/pet on every single encounter if I feel like it. If a SoF named can be tanked by a J5 tank merc, then you better bet your bottom dollar that a EM18 full max AA raid pet should be able to tank that named as well.

I also believe that my EM18 full max AA raid pet should also be able to tank better than a warrior/paladin/SK that doesn't do anything but stand there, turn /autoattack on, and then move to a box DPS character. However I also do not believe that that same pet should be able to tank better than a raid geared, high AA count warrior/paladin/SK who is actively at his/her keyboard... hitting the appropriate disciplines/actions when necessary... performing his/her core roles as a tank... and putting forth as much effort into the encounter as I am with my character. Where the *grey area* starts to happen is when you start to compare a EM18 full max AA raid pet against (as an example) a RoF T1 group geared warrior/paladin/SK with only 3-4k AA.

And it is that *grey area* that, while we may never be able to define it as black/white, will go a very long ways as to what is considered acceptable for a pet in today's EQ.

Well you said 3. Like I said put Garg pets into your equation and it works, remove them and 3 is a bit much with no healer. Our abilities have too many caps on them where they fall off if X DMG is hit. With 3 mobs your hitting that cap far too soon for your examples to hold true w/o a garg pet mitigating DMG. It's not getting worked up, its called being upset when people spread lies about my class. I am sure most would be upset at that.

I actually want this thread closed a long with every other one. You will continue to see the same ppl for and the same people against. And you will continue to see the worst excuses given as to why this was good. 'My guild only pet tanks EW, we can't beat it otherwise but please nerf pets' is the most illogical reason given to be against pet tanking.