When did this much grind become acceptable?

I'll sign my name on this one. I'm sure I'm already on that list.

I guess I am done then. I'm kinda stuck and out in the cold and as I stated in other posts, way behind about I'd estimate 60 to 75 percent of the ps4 population. Add in the pc population then the players like me make up the rest.

I find it cute that people think that the new content is a grind. Go play a Korean MMO or something like that, then you can see what a grind really is. This stuff is nothing. Yeah, getting the gear will take awhile without replay badges, but it's still easily doable before the next episode is going to hit. Plus, this grind is still nothing compared to LPVE.

There are friendly people that help players like you. Quite a number of leagues help. You don't have to be PC or PS only leagues. The only downside is that friends in leagues can't unlock other platform's content for them. (We like to do that for each other.)

Try not to pug it alone. Make friends or join a league.

You will be able to skip content until the latest one, but from this DLC on this will no longer be possible.

Let's try something:

From now on you will eat only once per day. No snacks, no anything, only one meal. If you ever complain about that I'll get someone to smack you for being too cute. Go live in Africa, then you can see what hunger really is. This stuff is nothing. Yeah, feeling your belly growling will take a while to get used to, but it's still easy doable since there's always the next mean. Plus, your wish to eat is still nothing compared to the poor people who starve to death.

You like how my analogy is stupid? Now notice how it's exactly what you just said, but with different words. The worse doesn't excuse the bad, never did and never will.

Buddy as someone that's probably played more MMO's than you have, I can safely say that some of us have lives. We do not want to sit on DC for 10 hours a day grinding out dailies in hopes of our main roles and alts getting the best gear.

The different between DC and other MMO's? Other one's have multiple things to grind at, you have many different things you spend your time on and you don't feel like you're doing one thing for 20 hours straight. Other MMO's don't feel like a chore.

When you get on DC and have that 'UGH I have to do my dailies' feeling because you've been doing the same three instances every night for months, you get to know something is wrong.

I guess we'll just have to disagree mate

I'm not sure what you're doing in game, but there's no reason why it should take you a year to reach cr175 or higher. You could easily be cr175 in a week. As for getting your skill points up, you may be approaching it wrong, making it look impossible to catch up. The grindy feats will take some months for sure, but there are plenty of feats that can be knocked out easier especially if you form groups with feat hunting in mind. I'm not saying it's a panacea, but you can also try joining a league that can help.

Who are you and which one of my bills will you be paying this month with your petty two cents?

OC is Origin Crisis. That DLC wreaked havoc amongst the community. Because of the original nerfs to the raids and then high CR players decimating the content you'll never know just how difficult the OC raids were.

On top of that, the best gear was in those raids, but if you didn't get geared up fast in the first month of release it was hell getting into raid groups who demanded people at a certain CR then. Getting vendor gear was made into a hell grind since most players couldn't get into groups to run the raids...so it was the iconic solos, and alerts that people ran daily just to get some vendor gear.

On top of the difficulty, there were certain pieces of gear "accidentally" missing from the Paradox Wave loot table which made it impossible for the few people that were beating the raid to complete their sets. And if that wasn't bad enough, there were severe rendering issues that affected PS3 players, where people couldn't see AoEs and were getting KO'd with splash damage they couldn't even see to avoid. Add to that boss enrage timers, and the pressure was on for DPSes to perform...you can imagine how that turned a fun game into a pressure cooker for some.

It was a terrible time for players who weren't in good leagues or who didn't have an extensive friends list to run with. There has always been exclusion and a certain level of elitism in the game...but during the OC days it was at an all time high. So much so that a lot of players quit for a variety of reasons.

The Devs then dropped Sons of Trigon DLC which had a weekly bounty that dropped gear that was just about equal to the OC vendor gear in stats and could be replayed for a full set. It also contained a Vendor set that was higher in stats/cr than the vendor gear in OC...and the alert had a guaranteed weapon drop at last boss. That gave players a chance to finally get strong enough to have a chance in the OC raids, which at the time still had the best gear in game as drops.

There are some players that were here from the beginning who honestly enjoyed the challenge of the Origin Crisis Alerts and Raids...but those players generally ran with friends or leaguemates who were good. A few even might have been bad a$$ solo players who lived for the challenge. A lot of those players remember OC with rose tinted glasses. They were not the majority that struggled to get into groups and were kicked left and right. They weren't stuck being left out of the raids. Some of those players played on the PC side, which didn't have nearly as many rendering issues. The Devs made a vow to never again release a DLC as punishing as Origin Crisis (it cost them a lot of players). The closest we've come to OC level of difficulty was DWF...and that still pales in comparison to Nexus and Paradox Wave at release.

TL;DR...OC is Origin Crisis, and it was bad for the community at large, but some people who had it good in that era forget just how bad it was for the rest.

Good summary of the OC times. Personally being on the PC server, I didn't know many people that were as stressed out as those on the PS side based on your post. I loved the OC raids and they're still my favourite by far to this day. They had mechanics that needed to be followed and they took time to beat, they made you feel accomplished for passing an instance.

With that being said I was one of the solo players that didn't have a league and was picked up often to tank, I also didn't experience any rendering issues so I guess it just wasn't that bad for me. I feel bad for those players you mentioned that went through what sounds like a nightmare.

And how has that worked out for us so far??? Every mass exodus creates major shifts in the game which leads to more of the same. Instead of advocating for players to leave, listen to the heart of the issues that people are having and offer an actual solution that could benefit all instead of showing people the door. Less players is not the solution to ANY of the problems with the game or community.

You know, I like you more and more. Good post.

Also, the chest piece caused players on PC side to target a GM (or friend of a GM) that gave himself the full set. There was a literal witch hunt on the player. I knew quite a few of them, one used to be in my league. I was quite surprised by the foaming at the mouth they did. It really came down to it, those players were the ones who were able to complete the content, while the players that weren't part of it were the ones that struggled with closing a single tunnel or heck, in a lot of cases, getting into a dang bubble.

Rendering issues happened a lot on PC as well. I'll be honest, I was told many times you could see the bubble coming at you from the sub boss, but I only have seen in recently after I got a PC with better gfx card.

If they had done that, there might not have been enough players left for stats to matter. It's painfully obvious that Stats matter wouldn't be ready for test for at least another month or two...and that's just test. The player base was already thinning out with nothing new to do. We wouldn't have lasted another 4 or so months with nothing but a seasonal and new time capsules to keep us logging in, nevermind actually playing the game for longer than that.

Most likely, because winter holiday is upon us, we wont see it on test until end of January or early February. Most likely wont launch until the next DLC.

Grind Is the one thing will keep players actually playing, because the content It Is easy enough to beat It day one

So just because some dont have the time, will or patience, others should be refrain Of doing so
Just as It doesnt Mean either you cant progress without heavy grind either

So, reasonable amount Of grind It Is dependeable only to each players and will vary according their disposition to play the game

Yeah, PS3 players (because there was no PS4 at the time) had it rough. Those mechanics you enjoyed on the PC side were a pure nightmare when you couldn't see half of them to avoid it. To make matters worse it wasn't consistent amongst all players. You had people screaming at you, calling you a noob because you were smack dab in the middle of an AoE, but if it wasn't rendering on your screen you sat there wondering where you were taking damage over time, with no idea which direction to roll in...so you just died. And if the person who tried to pick you up had rendering issues too, he'd be walking into the same AoE pool. Same thing in the Last Boss room of Nexus...people would get a harmful aura, and if it didn't render right, they'd bring it to the whole group...wiping the whole team. Now imagine all of that and because of the deaths and pick ups, not a lot of burn going on...enrage timer kicks in and wham. Repair and do it all over again. And that was just Nexus. Dox was a whole other hornets nest. Even after the nerf, Dox was still a challenge for the average player base.

I was a solo player with a few friends during the worst of OC. Funny enough, my main toon was a member of Clockwork Orange a month after it came out, but I didn't interact with anyone in league at that time. It was only after most of my other friends went their separate ways that I hit them up and they brought me in to the raids...the game got better for me right after that.

I can survive whatever this game throws at me...but OC level of exclusion leading to a mass exodus...that would not be good for anyone.

Those types of players are the WORST in the community. They cry for stupid changes that only harm them and the rest of us in the long run AND they're the first to quit when they realize their blunder. They are the types of players that gave us GU36+. They are the first to complain and first to leave when what they want is implemented.

I was told the same thing all the time. I didn't see what they were talking about until the PS4 dropped. That first month with the PS4 made every instance brand new, and I turned into a superstar cause I could finally see and avoid most of the pitfalls. I also remember that witch hunt for that player. It was at that time that I finally found the forums. That was just bananas.