W.I.P. Combat Balance - Jump Canceling Solutions

Pretty sure that it was 2.5x better than a HL not using jump cancel, not 2.5x more than intended. Unless, HL was intended to do bottom tier damage since all it's powers hit for about half of what most powers do. If it wasn't for HL being able to jump cancel so well, it would have joined Electricity and earth in the QQ my power sucks forum.

I hope the devs take that 2.5x number into consideration when they re-balance hard light as the class will then be doing well over half, more like a third of the damage it previously did.

I've come to accept that they are doing away with jump canceling and that's fine, but the devs better find a way to keep Hard Light viable for dps and maybe some improvements as far as it's insane power consumption goes.

@Vinny

All animations, for the most part are being made into the length of 1 to 1.2 seconds, so that means all damage will be adjusted accordingly.

Jump canceling was an unintended loophole many used to front load damage, they are finally fixing it, and making the game overall, better. Let the devs finish their good work, because when it is all said and done, all power sets will be viable. That is the whole purpose of these jump canceling and animation time changes, to make all power sets as close to equal as possible.

All powers will be viable lol...All powers rite now are already pretty close dps wise if you know how to play them right except maybe earth and electricity.

Imagine if Yoshinori Ono, Street Fighter 4's executive producer, announced that they were taking combos out of SF4 because it gives skilled players with good execution, and lots of training an "unfair" advantage... Pretty much where this game is heading

I think the key words in your statement is ARE BEING MADE, meaning THEY ARENT HERE YET SO THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BE UPSET. Changing JC in the game update before you balance animation time caused an uproar of angry players. They have a right to be mad, but we can only hope they fix animation times asap.

@Derio

Right these changes "are being made". That's why this part of the forums is called "work in progress". It means they are still working on it.

No change is a quick and easy process, especially the amount of change taking place in the next 2-3 game updates. As you said, the changes "aren't here yet", so there is absolutely no reason to be upset over anything, as none of us have played any of these changes. We can only speculate what the changes will be like.

Changing jump canceling first is a priority, in my opinion, because it will help get people used to how the game is meant to be played prior to any other changes. These changes are for the good of the game in long run. This game is an ever changing MMO. It will most likely feel like a new game when all is said and done. This is a part of playing MMO's. People can choose to adapt to change, or they can choose not to adapt.

Either way, I feel the devs are doing an amazing job here, and they should most definitely keep up the great work.

We really don't know what they tell us. Unless you're a Dev yourself. But JC does make an imbalance, but if you rely on it, that's sad. If you think you need to rely on it, it's sad. My friends were Electric and earth and sorcery. They topped or got second on a regular bases, and they never Jump canceled. Then I saw a Hard Light who challenged a DPS that said he could beat the HL with his "Lightning Fast JC" and the HL just clipped without JC and still beat the other guy by a mill. JC really doesn't help you if you have a more skilled person, and it sure doesn't help your claim that your an Apex DPS. If you were, you would try to get better with out JC. Like people say, " Hope for the best prepare for the worst." and " Don't put all of your eggs in one basket." Power Rebalance. Ha, there will always be a power imbalance. There are many reasons. I'll list a few: Animation Time Variance, Precision v. Might, Damage of each animation, etc. People talk about a balance of powers meaning they'll have a an equal chance of getting on top( depending on skill).This isn't that reliable either; does that mean if I have a 50% chance of topping, that the other DPS's will, too( I even have the exact same skill and armor). No, that implies every power has a 50% chance to get on top; doesn't guarantee that you will( even if you match the other player exactly). This is equal/balanced. Even though I do know that people will argue with this, it can fight itself because if you do fight: what if..., it'll show that you don't see that my main argument(s) are: equal/balanced, truthful, and make sense.

You speak the truth

I found the truth gets you banned on here, I guess some people just can't handle the truth. lol

s

They did such a great job too, did you notice the tap triangle bb takes more time than the hold for dw?

The jc nerf was booty for a hardlight user I made a video of combos thats are still effective

The way I see it, I'm really not too worried about JC ruining HL because theres another thread not too far from this one. Its about balancing HL... Jump cancel tweeks may nerf HL temporarily, but then they will balance HL and all will be right with the world DCUO is a great game, have faith in its developers.

The "Fast Block" (enter type- chat box to cancel and then exit) now works faster than the propsed Dove Tail animation. On PC or PS4 (I'm on PS4 and the double tapping the touch pad is the same as Jump cancel, albeit a little slower and not as convenient, and if you cannot double tap Range with a Grenade to get the "Phantom Triangle". I'm sure with practice one could get the timing Down so that it would appear like Fan was clipped entirely. Same way players are " Quick Blocking"

(This works for Cast Fan or construct Fan.)

(I said earlier that "For Balance" the dove-tail would need to be the same as Flight-exiting Movement if attack was cast while flying and needed to match the Chat-Box Cancel. Anything faster or slower will not be balance and people will just switch.

I'll try to show a video of it.

y not leave HL as it is ... if ain't broke do not fix it ... fact is JC is a part of the game ppl who are on board doesn't appreciate the uniqueness and skill it takes to master ... eliminating JC is catering to those who couldn't pick up HL and learn it in 10 mins ... OMG DC caters so much ...i'm not even HL but i know this is a bad idea JC effects no one directly who choose to not use it. Nerfing it is a waste of time as they could use that time to make my raids IJS which one is more important new Raids or nerfing JC ... i thought so

Here is a video clip of Chat-cancel RSF...no jump cancel

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201963076618534

If this, along with Flight movement cancel, and the new "dovetail" are not the same animation length, then people will just resort to the fastest animation of them. They need to be balanced, which what I thought was the point of fixing "Jumps cancel".

I was on PS4, touch pad douple-tap for Fan cancel.

I assume on the PC it would be easier to open/close the chat box with a key douple-tap.

Apologies for skimming from OP, very long thread.

The simple solution is to add a second global cooldown timer for all powers of eg. 2 seconds. That way you could clip or jump cancel a power but not dovetail a second power in phase 5 because it would be still be greyed out by the global cooldown.

The true reveal will come when it gets on test server or they announce its arrival. We will see if the devs listened to reason or the sore losers.

(btw read the saying about throwing a rock into a pack of dogs)

@C Heals

The truth is the game is changing in a positive direction. The devs can see the current imbalances and are working on fixing them. That is the truth.

Many people here are fighting change, but as I have said in the past, change goes with the territory of playing an MMO. Something else that happens often in MMOs are "loophole" fixes. Jump canceling to front load damage is a confirmed "loophole" that is being fixed, and the game is being adjusted accordingly. Just let the devs finish the great work they are doing. The game will turn out amazing, as it always does, you will see.

@Thread

These changes are going to be great. Even with these changes, DC will still be the fastest MMO on the market. These changes are going to help the game going forward immensely. Content, power sets, etc will all be better balanced. This is what we have been asking for, for years. Just give the devs a chance to finish the amazing work they are doing.

i'm very excited that they're not listening to the sore losers



this has been a fabulous thread and really shown how committed the devs are to the game and really show us that the devs can tell who's a real part of the community and has it's best interests in mind. ecstatic about seeing the dovetail go live.

on the other hand, it's sad to see so many of you using the moderators as a means to bait and attack the participants who demonstrated a superior understanding of the problem and it's related issues, just out of self interest.

This is such an insultingly myopic viewpoint of the points raised by the very sizable portion of the community that's against this. Best interests? Completely subjective. Jump-cancelling wasn't diminishing anyone else's enjoyment of the game. Moreover, it was not necessary for most powers to put up incredible damage numbers, nor was it a pressing issue in PVP. Simply put, it was an element of the game that allowed for players to push their toon's capabilities a touch further with most powers, and fostered an opportunity for players to add a whole new level of complexity to their gameplay, if they so choose.

Now that's going away, and the people who feel this is a terrible, short-sighted and poorly thought out decision are not real parts of the community, who don't have the game's best interest in mind?

I'm disappointed in you, Mouse.