Trollls hmmmm (devs let's talk)

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Cypharr, Oct 30, 2023.

  1. Aiden_Warren Well-Known Player

    Is controller useless on its own? Likely yeah. Is the debuff useless on its own? Likely yeah.
    Is it useless in a team for crowd control and power interactions? With players Working as a team. No, it's very useful.

    It takes more than debuffs to take on raids, and for removing solos and duos?
    Spec DPS?
  2. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    Riiiight... Just like the old saying goes: "There are no bad workmen, only bad tools." :rolleyes:
    • Like x 2
  3. Multiverse Creator League

    Easy enough..... they use DPS gear... or DPS mods.... or DPS Arts.
    Or all of the above. ;)
  4. Irvynnge Loyal Player

    see? this is why I won't Troll, any more. screw you, man.
  5. Cypharr Committed Player

    Interesting views love to read more on the matter.
  6. Plowed In Loyal Player

    It appears you:
    A) haven’t checked/confirmed any numbers
    B) use zero data to support your claim that debuffs - “literally do nothing” -or- misused the work literal
    C) didn’t consider that role less buffs do not exist in elite content
    D) might just be bored at work and opining since you had coffee / energy drink of choice
    E) have very limited experience playing with battle trolls (or very good battle trolls)

    But you feel comfortable expressing that the entire role should be reworked because…

    (This is what I can’t figure out)
    • Like x 5
  7. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    Dunning-Kruger Effect.
  8. Miserable Dedicated Player

    While OP's post is obviously ridiculous, I'd like to take this opportunity to share that I'm not a huge fan of the Controller role today. I feel like this role's identity has transformed a lot over the years and it hasn't always been quite sure of what it's trying to be.

    Here are my thoughts on the different aspects of the role.

    Power Healing - Power healing is a lot more passive than it used to be. Since Might DPS and support roles have very good power regeneration on their own, and prec DPS have relatively low power consumption, the troll's PoT, which is automatic as long as they're using abilities, is often enough to keep the entire group powered without issue. Unless you are running with a Gadgets DPS with a clip-heavy rotation, there is very little active effort required to keep the power up.

    Debuffing - I don't really have anything bad to say about this. The responsibility of debuffing is pretty much the same as it's always been and is probably the controller's most important job today. The artifacts Rao and BOP have made debuffing a lot easier as you just need to cast a power every 6 seconds to apply all 3 debuffs to all enemies in the vicinity.

    Crowd Control - I'll get straight to the point: controllers using crowd control make things worse. That's the unfortunate reality. In any content that requires a tank, it is generally the tank's responsibility to keep adds CC'd as they are the ones who can do it most effectively. Tanks can maintain a crowd control rotation indefinitely on normal adds. But if a troll uses their CC abilities, it will give them immunity and make the tank's life harder. "Troll pls don't cc adds" is a very common thing to see in group chat. Of course, there may be situations where a controller's CC comes in handy, like if there's a stray add attacking the group, but generally, most endgame/elite trolls are using Birds' Blitz from BOP Commlink to be able to debuff without CCing.

    Buffing - This is the big one. The most drastic change to the controller role (apart from maybe the PoT changes) has come from the introduction of certain artifacts, which have also given birth to the term "buff troll." Along with debuffing enemies, buffing your teammates is now the troll's biggest job. It essentially feels like we are a walking buff trinket. Because of this, controllers also have the most demanding artifact requirements out of any role once you get into the endgame/elite circles. In addition to the must-have Rao (and for some people, BOP), you are also expected to have Claw, Cog, and Tetra for team buffs and art swap to keep them all up (the really hardcore players use Rings and Parasite's too).

    I don't really have any suggestions on how to make the role better, but those are my thoughts on its current state, and I know a lot of people share them.

    One thing I can say is that I used to really enjoy active power healing back in the day, which was similar to how healers have to watch green bars and use abilities to restore health to teammates. Although that might be an unpopular opinion as there were a lot of trolls back then who complained about being batteries.
    • Like x 6
  9. August Moon Well-Known Player

    All im gonna say is run you an elite raid with a troll that has amulet / bop/ tetra or cog, then run that same raid with a troll using scrap bop, hectate. youll see a massive difference. Bet fat stacks youll add the first troll to your friend's list so fast
  10. Too Many Toons Dedicated Player

    I'm afraid that happens all the time. Thanks to 'role optional' alerts..a contingent of the populace think that carries over to raids as well..have encountered many raids where the person who queued as 'troll' opted to dps instead
  11. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    This is why you build a group instead of random queue. The same issue applies to healers, tanks and DPS as well. It is not an problem exclusive to the control role.
  12. Cypharr Committed Player

    This discussion is an eye opener, granted initially I stood firm on the activities of a troll as said in the initial post. So far no one has aligned to my thoughts & opinions which is fair. All valid summaries, I go by democracy so I'm inclined to accept the majorities opinion I guess my TWO CENTS on the matter is obsolete. Regardless I would appreciate if troll debuff where improved obviously not significantly as I stated earlier however just a tad bit.

    PS: It's nice to see the community engage in a discussion without any toxic traits (Say no to Anthrax #StopBiologicalWarfare) lol
  13. ObsidianChill Creator League, Community "Trusted"

    • Like x 5
  14. Alushaun Well-Known Player

    • Like x 1
  15. Mr.W Committed Player

    I'm not trying to be "that guy" & I'm sure you already know, but I can confirm troll debuffs make a great difference. Especially if you pug in weaker groups lol. (Not being mean to the OP either).

    As far as the role in general, is there a way trolls can have immunity breakers added to them so the stuns don't clash with some tanks? That way tanks can still cc regardless of traditional debuffs. (Personally I wait until the end of a troll stun before I cc with my tank) Many tanks however are too picky to do this & get upset at trolls for actual playing their role.
    • Like x 2
  16. Emoney Dedicated Player

    As a Tank, I 100% agree with this. And I can't count how many times I've had to say please don't CC the adds. I have a nice rotation as a fire tank, and CC crazy trolls ruin my whole flow. Even to the point the group starts to blame me for the aggro drop. It's frustrating especially when players don't understand the dynamic that is occurring. The biggest change I would ask the devs to make, is divide the CC between the two roles. Keep the limit for the tank, but make it so either the troll has a separate limit, or no effect at all on the immunity....something. Because right now, it's a problem.

    When I form groups as a Tank, I don't include controllers for that very reason. I'd rather deal with longer burn than CC issues.
    • Like x 1
  17. Mr.W Committed Player

    I agree troll CC need to be considered. Most tanks are too lazy to rotate their cc with the troll's. I think trolls should be given an immunity breaker on their debuffs so lazy tanks can stop complaining & the troll is free to fire their natural debuffs if that is their playstyle.

    As far as buffing trolls I personally like that addition very much for when I play non-troll roles as well as when I troll. For me it's another way to be a selfless aid to the group. To me it also makes perfect sense from the perspective of the role itself. When I play controller I don't just see my power as quantum, gadgets, light etc, but the role itself is also my super power to either reduce my foes or super charge my companions & no other role can be that flexible & unique :)
  18. Cypharr Committed Player

    Quick question? If trolls are so great like everyone has said (they buff, debuff & CC, blah blah blah). Why do people not run trolls in normal or elite alerts. All I see is 3 dps and a tank or 2 dps a weak tank and healer. Trolls are only used for raid which in many cases I've ran normal raids without a troll and we were fine. #MakeItMakeSense. Am I missing something or just hearing hypocrites rant?

    Try to see where I'm coming from you can't live without a healer or tank in most scenarios. However in all scenarios you can live without a troll if everyone is willing to use soders and time supply drops efficiently (this can "MAYBE" apply to elite raids, obviously applies to elite alerts) (notice I said "MAYBE" in quote. Don't come at me please)

  19. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    Because with roleless buffs in alerts you don't need any specific role and can run with any combination of group.
  20. Cypharr Committed Player

    Which was my point in the initial post. Trolls are only valuable for power regen. The buff, debuff & CC SUCK! otherwise it'll be (META) common knowledge to use trolls for buff, debuff & CC if not for power regen. Again #MakeItMakeSense. I'm confused as to why we don't value the buff, debuff & CC that everyone claims to be so great. Cos what I'm seeing in the game debunks that notion. Please common the buff, debuff & CC are useless. (Come into the LIght) (The Grass is Greener Over Here).

    It's because of how significantly useless troll buff, debuff & CC are we coined the term battle troll so we can redeem the uselessness of trolls.

    Why are we acting like we don't like good things. Troll buff, debuff & CC are not a good thing right now in the game. Veterans take group composition seriously there is are reason why they don't use trolls we should take the hint cos it's right there & so clear.