Trollls hmmmm (devs let's talk)

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Cypharr, Oct 30, 2023.

  1. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    That might be your opinion but it isn't true. It is buff focused trolls that are the current meta, not power focused trolls.
    • Like x 1
  2. Cypharr Committed Player

    We like to think so but that's the misconception entirety of the game is believing, it's falsehood we need to wake up. I'm woke to this ridiculous misconception. Again is the buff, debuff & CC are the "META" why don't we use trolls at least 80% of the time like other roles (healer & tank). #MakeItMakeSense

    People don't care for the buff, debuff, & CC as much as they think they do. We are blind to our own reality.
  3. Mr.W Committed Player

    For alerts i guess the most common powers ppl play are of the healer/ tank role so you may not see a troll very often & many ppl are shy of their 2nd role.

    Your post was an eye opener & nearly everyone agree that the troll CC shouldn't clash with a tank. This is an excellent issue to be corrected that will add value to trolls.

    As far as the comparison to heals & tanks I don't feel that's completely fair as those roles are the corner stones to this game & especially so with a tank. Technically you can beat a raid/E with all 8 ppl being a tank depending on the mechanics (though it might take a while lol) but that's not possible for any other role in the game.

    The way I view it, the troll job is to enhance other roles to speed up encounters in unique ways & it's okay that it may not be a cornerstone like a tank. That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't still troll in alerts :)
    • Like x 1
  4. Cypharr Committed Player

    If everyone wants to be truthful and not defend, protect there ridiculous opinions religiously. I've one question "Do you not get pissed when someone tries to play a troll in elite & normal alerts?"
    • Like x 1
  5. Mr.W Committed Player

    The only way to make troll debuffs more meaningful then they already are is to give them team buffing effects.

    Ex: applying a damage debuff to an enemy also grants a (stackable) damage mitigation of x% for x seconds to the group member they attack.

    For a troll to be better we have to make give them team effects in more meaningful ways.

    I have to admit that would be pretty cool lol :p
    • Like x 1
  6. Cypharr Committed Player

    Thank you, this is a wonderful revelation. My end game is for us to see trolls for what they really are. My main is a troll but I do not get the opportunity to paly as troll as often as I would wish. This should not be the case, we can petition the devs to make obvious improvements to trolls which is very much needed. The power regen is fine but to add validity to trolls the buff not so much it fine I guess, the debuff definitely need an improvement. We shouldn't have to use any trinkets, allys or etc as ObsidianChill mentioned above. There is room for improvement let's make it happen.
    • Like x 1
  7. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    Because: maths. It's really simple and obvious, so let me explain it. If a troll's buffs and debuffs allow 5 DPS to do - let's say hypothetically - 20% more damage each, that's like having a 6th DPS in a raid (5x20%=100%), on top of all the extra power which helps clipping DPS do even more damage (not to mention the benefits for tanks and healers). If a troll does the same for just 2 DPS - that's only 2x20%=40%, so having a 3rd DPS usually makes more sense, even if some will struggle for power and consequently do less damage than normal.

    Also, alerts - even Elite - are p*ss-easy, so you can get away with anything, especially that most powersets can manage their power usage fairly efficiently if needed, and tanks can do all the necessary CC. Normal EG alerts are easily done with 4 semi-competent DPS. Guess what - nobody needs tanks and healers in duos either...
    • Like x 2
  8. Cypharr Committed Player

    Which makes my point exactly we're essentially deriving the same result. Trolls are not that great at the moment if 3 dps trumps 2 dps and a troll. The devs need to work on that so that 2 or more dps and troll is better than the alternative which is all dps. We need to feel the impact of a troll more so. Which in turn will make trolls more viable and reliable further making people want to run trolls instead of the META which is 3 dps and a tank or healer. 3 dps and a troll should be equally as viable as the current group META. if only troll debuffs, defense debuff can melt the enemy subsequently damage reduction debuff significantly reduce the enemies damage enhancing team survivability. Right now I can assure you if an enemy's hit one-shots a player or deals damage let's say half health. The hit will still one-shot a player or consume the same amount of health with or without a damage reduction debuff. So what the point? That why I say it's just cosmetic mechanic.

    I'll ease you guys into the reality just be open to the results. And look at the group composition people mostly play. No one need a troll except to give power. To pretend is one thing, to be oblivious to fact is another. I won't accept the opinion that troll debuff are okay cos they are not and it ****.

    As you said, If you're aware that in raids 5 dps and a trolls is better what changed to make 3 dps and a troll less effective in alerts. Can you see now that the math is not mathing?
  9. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    Accept it or not, troll debuffs are fine. Good players don't mind running alerts with a troll, because they can use buffs, debuffs and more power to compensate. But good players are not as common as one would like, so it is what it is.

    What changed is the difficulty and power regen. It used to be, years ago, that you didn't need a tank in alerts, but you absolutely needed a troll, otherwise everyone was running with empty bars. Now you can run Elite alerts without a healer - that doesn't mean healers are useless. Solos, duos and alerts are window dressing, you can't balance the game around them. Raids are the focus of the game and no Elite raid is being run without a troll.
    • Like x 1
  10. Cypharr Committed Player

    You're steadfast to your guns as am I. The rest is for the devs to see this discussion & weigh in by implementation or disregarding facts.
  11. LowFlyingMoon Loyal Player

    The trouble is - you haven't presented any facts for them to disregard, or any workable solution for them to implement - in fact you haven't even presented a problem to be solved, unless we count the player base generally not being all that bright, which can't really be helped. As for your opinion - yeah, they'll probably disregard that.
    • Like x 3
  12. Furious Vee Well-Known Player

    Posts like these are nobody bothers with support roles anymore.
  13. Vikaluka Active Player

    Let's assume that DPS's parse is around 100k, so in alert with roleless buff, we have:

    . 3 DPS with -24% damage: 300k * 0.76 = 224k

    . 2 DPS with a controller who also buffs and debuffs:
    . roleless buff: -12% damage
    . debuffs: 15% extra damage
    . buffs increase damage by, for example, 15%: 100k * 1.15 = 115k -> 230k
    . 230k * 0.88 * (1 / 0.85) = 238k > 224k

    It's possible that the "2 DPS 1 Troll" setup can beat "3 DPS", while also having more survivability thanks to damage debuff. Also contents are too easy so ultimately it doesn't really matter that much. In my opinion, go with your preferable setup.
    • Like x 1
  14. Entrust Committed Player

    No, I don't.
    • Like x 1
  15. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    I only get pissed when someone doesn't know how to play their role.
    • Like x 1
  16. Wallachia Devoted Player

    Because they are complex classes. Being a controller is not about only giving power or just debuffing, you oughta know when to debuff, what to debuff, if you should use CC on this or that add, if you should give space to the tank, if you should give power now or wait a bit because only one member of the group is using his powerbar too much, and things like that. However, as the game has been dumbed down, so has been the average player: I have seen people in troll role doing nothing but rush past a group of adds to try to be top DPS in the instance just to die foolishly when I, as a tank, don't pull aggro (which I do on purpose because evil).

    I play both as a healer and as a tank, and I can easily state that good trolls make a complete difference in the game, given that I can fully focus on my roles. A good troll has reduced the boss fight time in nearly half, and it has kept my healer alive, because without receiving power from a troll I need to use weapon attacks, risking getting aggro from an add and being killed because people don't really protect healers.
    • Like x 3
  17. Miserable Dedicated Player

    It has nothing to do with lazy tanks. It sucks that trolls' CC messes up tanks, but that is entirely the fault of the game.

    And this idea of being patient and having the tank and troll take turns with CC simply isn't realistic. Maybe if they were in a voice chat together and had perfect communication, it could somewhat work (even then, immunity would likely still happen), but this isn't the case in most groups. Tanks have no control over what the troll is doing and how often they spam their CC, nor can they always afford to wait for troll stuns to elapse - they often need to pull/group adds together. It also depends on the specific troll ability in question. Some are good at not giving immunity as long as they aren't spammed, while others will give immunity no matter what.

    The reality of the game today is that the tank being solely responsible for CC works much better than even the best case scenario of a tank and troll rotating. That said, I'm all for proposals like yours that would solve this problem.
    • Like x 1
  18. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    So you’re basing it off your own lack of knowledge. Got it.

    You being aware of how it works does not change facts. A using def debuffs will make a big difference to the overall time of a run. Your inability to comprehend is no reason to make a change. Now, are there things that can be improved? Of course. But to say a troll is useless just because you don’t know how to use it? Please.
    • Like x 1
  19. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Because of people like you who are clueless? You claim to be “woke” but are not giving any signs of having even a basic knowledge of the role.
    • Like x 1
  20. Wallachia Devoted Player

    Rule of thumb:

    100% of people who claim to be woke or have critical thinking are, in reality, rather stupid AND arrogant.
    • Like x 1