The ongoing discussions about the App and Kicking... (TLDR warning)

apps or not, people were kicking by just inspecting way before the apps, with the apps if your undergeared that represent a gain of time for low cr, instead of being kick in the instance they are kicked outside

that fall to this category from my experience with pugs i'm not making, would have been kick anyway the moment they are inspecting,
below cr106 is "undergeared" for kick happy people, go figures

the point is the impact of the apps is overestimated from my experience, it happens yes, but i don't think there was that much less kicking before.

Determining a players worth by checking his gear was always around, even before it was reduced to a number, ie CR. (GLF Tank for FOS. Come to WT for inspection.) CR just made it easier to do a snap judgement. With the app, it's even easier. Don't even need to respond, you get a tell, just type his name in the search field. SP, CR, stats. All there for quick viewing. So the alienation happens way before you even get in.

Random queues are a different matter altogether. The biggest issue is, they are going to kick you until they get what they want. It just takes 5 minutes between. (Which amazes me, they could easily just use LFG while they wait for another victim.)

How is this not locked/ninja deleted yet?

Bumbling, it's how the community uses it that I was trying to point out.
To say that a "few bad apples" of the community didn't take advantage of walkins, door glitches, the alert buffs, etc would be blind to the truth. These were all commonplace practices based on design flaws and exploits.

Remember when the brokerages on the PS were exploited and EVERYONE was forced to adjust to a drastically changed economy? Yes, that was a matter of a small percentage of the community having an overwhelming effect on everyone else and why I didn't use it as an example.
But you can't deny that when just walking into Smallville immediately awarded you the speed feat, pulling Doomsday under the stairs in the barn or being able to 8 man Strykers and Arkham weren't done in widespread fashion. The shouts and players lining up outside of those instances were nearly global.

This hits the center of what I'm trying to point out. Many "good natured" players adjusted to many of these glitches and exploits. Even those who did not want to often found themselves in groups that refused to run content WITHOUT using these design flaws and submitted to the group's decision and played along. I'm as guilty of that as anyone is.

Cause and effect.

Serious question. How was I wrong with the assertion of "Devs can't change how players think and act."? They can try, but it only punishes the good players. While the bad will still do the bad.

Point is, we all pay to play our own way. If people want to use the app to do evil let them be. There isn't anything you can do about it. It's not against terms of service to kick players cause you feel they don't have the sp or cr to perform in a raid. It's wrong, yes, but not violating anything.

At first I didn't like the app, for this exact reason. I felt people would be too judgmental of others. But after using it I realized im not that bad as far as sp goes, yes I could have more for how long I been playing (im not a feat hunter, I just get them as i go) but there isn't anything for me to hide. If you're scared to have your stats looked up then your hiding something. Maybe lied about it in the past who knows. But as far as I can tell the app did not do as much harm to the community as everyone thought it would. In my opinion they might as well incorporate it in the game. Revamp the inspection screen. The water has already been tested, might as well feed it to the rest of the community.

I would like to see in-game policy enforcers (for lack of a better name). Individuals tasked with playing the game (undercover), and disciplining/banning ANYONE they encounter behaving in a way that is in violation of the rules. These individuals are never revealed to the public. They could be on any server on any continent, at anytime. Once the word gets out that people are being caught and banned, the community will begin to fall in line. The only thing that keeps people in-line are enforcers, that's how our society works. It's why we have police officers and military.

I've heard so many nasty conversations, discussions and arguments over voice chat in the past two years, that I don't even use voice chat anymore (except with my friends). I agree, that the conduct of MANY individuals is ruining DCUO. The problem is bigger than SOE is aware of, or willing to admit.

With what money and how is this any different from a GM playing w/o a "GM" tag?

Because the GMs don't actually enforce the rules properly like he is suggesting.

The logistics and implementation of it is SOE's concern, not ours.

Wont step very far from this thread, then. A good idea is one thing, a planed idea is another.

You mean my fact? Kicking isn't going. They made it so you can't kick people immediately if they just joined an instance. That doesn't stop people from kicking people later down the road if your doing bad or go afk for to long. People will do what they feel is right at the time. That ain't gon' change. You wanna prove yourself good or worth your salt find like minded people pugs or not. Not everyone cares to kick people but the same can be said that not everyone cares not to wanna kick someone. Now you don't have to like my post but that fact still remain that it's not going anywhere. Matchmaking has nothing to do with whether someone kicks you cuz you can get kicked for a boat load of reasons.

Good day

The App is not the problem. However i think that people should have the right to not only see who is kicking them but also how the group votes. That information should be shown to all in said group. I don't understand why this has not been implemented yet?

Excessive kicking is a biproduct of the matchmaking issue. It is less likely for those that are around other players with similar skill to kick one another. Kicking is an end result which would more than likely not even occur if everyone in a group was working well together. Do you or the community even understand the difference between players that are joined with those with similar experience and those that are not? For one, having players play with those with similar play styles generally reduces any hostility. No hostility reduces the chances of the vote to kick option from being triggered.

You and many others can continue to encourage others to accept things the way they are (e.g. kicking). However, by choosing this route many of you are just alienating those that will not tolerate the nonsense. People are most likely going to become ticked off and leave the game. And no, for the most part, people leaving the game is not helpful to DCUO. The game needs concrete solutions like fixing matchmaking. Not providing some form of therapy to the players on how they should accept things the way they are.

The point of view you have stated has been told from others for months if not years and it is not helping. Matchmaking has at least needed improvement since players with high end gear could nearly take out a boss with ease or on their own. Whether the player is kicked or another person single-handedly completes a mission (Duo, Alert or Raid), that player has not participated very much or at all.

this part is gonna be fixed soon, as player queuing will be "synced" to the level of the mission they queue for, no more people solowing lower tier and carying everyone on their path, although i'm not sure it will be an improvement, more likely overgear will just no more using the queue system and instead just do walk-in, as everything we be allow to be walked in. sure lower geared player are gonna participate more, but queue time will also be longer imo, much longer.

Good, Good. Now they need to catch up on making the lower tiers more appealing if the queue times are slower. I say this because if they are slower, I imagine the slow queue times would not happen for the players participating in end game content. If it is then perhaps the communities and SOE's praise for Leagues may have worked too well.

The community may have also given the idea to new players that lower tier content is for all intents and purposes, a chore. Something that should have minimal value to the player other than for feats. An example is that I was told "a player should not be concerned about Tanking until they have access to the raid 'Gates of Tartarus' ". This information may inspire a "newcomer" to neglect "Formal Tanking" until Gates.

Even if there are longer queue times I believe that would be better than having the illusion that fast queue times equals more time to participate in "Duty" missions.

Note: I say this believing that newcomers (fresh CR 30 through T4) out weigh established players (t5 through T6). To me T1 through T4 are too different from T5 through T6 (especially T6).

I have been digressing or rambling (I do not know which). Anyways, this news is very helpful to me.

Devs might not be able to control how we think, however their design choices do affect the kind of player base we get.(By attracting or driving off the kind of players they want. Yeah the community itself must factor into design decisions, and as it is their design decisions that if this thread is to be believed has left the bullies of our community with too much power to dictate the kind of players this game attracts...)

In short the major design problem the Devs are faced with is designing us some consequences so that the bile spewing bullies can and will held accountable for their behavior. In short design the game in a way that accounts for the bad nature of certain players so that the good natured ones can still enjoy the game.

The complaint being is that this game so far doesn't account for the worst possible thing players can do.(It's a balancing act between giving us fun things to do, and not letting the bad players abuse the rules by including some checks and balances to prevent the abuse of said rules)

Half-wrong. The only thing that will happen is with the event instances, where you will be synced up to the level of the boss (increased or decreased). This is not meant for usual content.

Where's this quote from?