The ongoing discussions about the App and Kicking... (TLDR warning)

I've read a few of the many threads on the topic. Enough to realize I do have an opinion but not enough to have become as embittered and jaded as many others who've taken sides. The DCUO Census API is long overdue -- it should be been included around the same time we got Lairs in my opinion if not before that. For the longest time this game suffered for a lack of definitive information about whom we choose (or not choose) to play with. The API is a tool and inherently neither evil or a bad / negative thing.

What certain individuals have chosen to do with said applications derived from the API, however, is insidious and strikes at the positive heart of this game and this community. Rather than using the app to better the overall ability and play of many players, it is being used to further the selfish agendas of those who are in this for themselves and not the overall long-term health of the game. Keep in mind that these individuals do not exist in a vacuum and many players tend to not pay those players heed unless they are befell to them. Basically being unengaged and dissociative of what happens in this game until things like this happen is equally a negative trait.

This is where the whole CR / SP judging happens rather than working with players to become better and that is a sad and sorry state of affairs, especially if the victim innocently queued into an instance (and yes, those people are cyber-bullied victims).

The kick mechanism needed to be in the game and, in fact, more needs to be done to refine that tool as I've found that in duos a single reticent player can hijack an instance without penalty. I've had it happen to me while leveling characters and I know many others who've complained about it. This apparently falls somewhat on deaf ears because nothing is ever said about this behavior (or the litany of racist and vulgar voice / text abuse which spews over the various open channel in obvious defiance of the CoC and ToS). No, kicking is a necessary evil at times especially when it is evident that people aren't putting in the best effort they can or simply cannot succeed at getting through an instance. I do believe, however, that the person being kicked should be given more heads-up (ie, they should have visibility on the vote).

In terms of changes to the kick tool, I would be more willing to allow that if one is over-tiered for an instance they shouldn't be allowed to initiate a kick or have limited ability to do so. I also believe that each instance should have an activity timer so if an instance starts and the person doesn't move with the group, they should be warned and then removed. This will prevent people from hijacking an instance by making people wait for them.

While these are simple ideas which may or may not work in full, the biggest change which needs to happen is in how we, as a community, treat each other. I understand that to some extent there is competition to be the best going on -- I get it and accept that as something that happens. However, at the end of the day, this is a MMO game which people play for their enjoyment so no amount of stress or animosity should be brought into it. That begins and ends with how we treat and speak to one another in game. It is the biggest knock I have on this community across both platforms although it is more prevalent on the PlayStation side -- people treat each other tempestuously at best when there is disagreement and with racist vitriol at its worst.

The saddest part about this situation is that when someone stands up and says "hey, you guys are out of line", they're either attacked for it or, if the bad / negative behavior is called out on these forums (as I believe is should be), that individual is punished for doing the right thing. Basically because no one wants to take accountability, the entire community lives with a level of anarchistic behavior traits which are only getting worse over time.

Something has to give because there are some really good, really smart, really talented players who've left the game because this has all come in without any sort of way to combat it. The attitudes which persist in this game are slowly killing the spirit in it and that's a sad thing. It won't happen quickly but it is happening and we all have to take some degree of responsibility for where we're headed.

Thank you. This may be a necro post but I did need to hear someone else say this instead of the people who treat me like I'm nuts. The kicking system though is also used to bully people who don't give into whims. You can have 3 dps in an instance with their support roles showing as if they qued up for dual roles and expecting an unlucky support role to bend to their whims while they do nothing to give a even team in favor of burning through content not meant to be burned through with no way to burn through except for countless unneeded repair. It's happened to me and its happened to friends. Duos Hijacked even in T6 by people who don't know the basics of their roles even if its just dps and they have no power output. Then there's the problem of the language barrier since somehow people don't know english on US PC unless you say the word kick when they do nothing to help their teamates and seem to cause more trouble than they are worth. Skilled players don't show unskilled players how to play and do nothing but badmouth and bully those who aren't and even bully each other. As I noticed no one said anything to what you wrote and this is possibly because they are guilty of doing so themselves or don't care enough to make a point to stand up and say that this type of community needs to improve. We already know in the years that this has happened when it comes to the kicking tool or bullying heck even the matchmaking system the devs have done little to nothing to improve it. But as a business something needs to be done at large to fix the game and the community as a whole. The game at least on US PC is overrun with dps because of the nasty standard the community is in that support roles do not want to support and when they do they are still met with disrespect by their peers who will then turn around and complain about the lack of support roles. If this is looked at from a honest perspective soon there will be no support roles as opposed to very little and we will be forced to burn through things whether we are ready or not. Already you have to be two tiers above raid content to be qualified by players to do the content lest you be deemed unworthy and kicked from the raid or asked to leave. Perhaps we should all think about when we were the ones in their shoes instead of being selfish. Because if the Devs won't help improve the standards then every last one of us who still has common sense enough to treat others the way we expect to be treated needs to not only speak up for someone in the forums but in game too. People should not have to find a league to have a fair chance and gameplay but that on the forums when someone has the problem with the quality of in game community or players in general is the solution. Not all are connected like that and not all leagues are pleasant, know what they are doing, or 24 hour leagues. I may be lucky to have a league that is but not everyone can find one. If it falls on deaf ears it falls on deaf ears but keep in mind Sony and Time Warner worry about short term profit rather than long term. If they were going to solve these problems they would've they'll just let the game die and say it was unsuccessful and move onto the next game people will do this on and rinse wash repeat. There may be some devs or whatever that may care but not enough. So we need to do this ourselves.

I'm just gonna say this since everyone's bumping old threads nowadays. You do realize you can make your own group and your own requirements as do other people? No one is telling you to take crap from anyone just make your own group or run with friends, your league mates whomever. Kicking ain't going anywhere.

Then get rid of matchmaking. Your argument is usually the go to rationalization for any issue that arise within matchmaking. So the developers should take it out until it is improved. Then people that believe in your argument will be forced to commit to it, at all times, throughout their play sessions. The people that do not, can perhaps save themselves from at least some grief and leave this game to a more healthier community.

Aphorisms: "Getting kicked out of a place is not bad when you have somewhere better to be".

"Any ill brought on from where you were just hastens your pace away from what has become a mistake".

This is usually the response to posts like these, and I never understand why. I been playing for 3 years and I just NOW found a good league to run everything with and not be required to pug. It's a lot easier said then done, If finding an active league or friends was so easy everyone would have done so a long time ago.

Idiotic people will be idiotic, with or without API.

Good people will help and give chances to low level players, with or without API.

To restrain information is always bad, as any government proves...

(YES, USA, I KNOW YOU ARE HIDING ALIENS )

The truth has been spoken!!

I agree, I help as many ppl as possible, rather its strangers needing someone to help run through HoD armory I will do it, craft mods (i'll do free IF I have the plan), or simply give advice to ppl in shout that are shoutting about stuff.


like this morning a guy was asking what he ought to mod 1st lowest item level or highest, told him depends on tier of gear you are, if its 93 over 94, always mod 94 1st, or if your tier skipping on a alt, mod the lowest as it will add to the item level #


I help as much as possible on USPS villain side, why? because when I leveled my 1st character I use to shout hours with 0 replies or tell's or ppl willing to help. Made me not want to play anymore.


but I am now on my 3rd character on the road to T6

true, for example I direct your attention below:


I ran necro I think on my HL troll had a 292 PoT, the other troll had a 290 or 291 PoT I told them to PoT though, and I just threw mine when they forgot to.


did we finish? yup, was there any major issues with power not til the split and trolls went on different ends.



point is ppl should do things like this more often to give other ppl a fun experience , I for 1 have been main troll on my main character since I hit 310 PoT, and half the time I have solo'd trolled. So letting lesser vit trolls, PoT is fun and is a experience for them

The devs can't change how players think and act. The census information is indeed neutral, neither good nor bad. The issue is, it only takes a small handful of bad to ruin any good that can come from it. If it can be used as a weapon, it WILL be used.

Anyways, I like the API. I've used it, but there are some things I just shouldn't know.

This person gets it. Please read their post.

The difference now is they had to wait until you were in the alert or raid to inspect you then kick you lol. This is how it has been since the game has started. If you don't believe me I'm sure others will confirm this. I for one can care less or inspect anyone until failing occurs over and over. Then, you can bet I will be the first to kick you for not being able to finish content and wasting mine and whoever else is in the group/raid time. Gear and skill points can be worked with. Knowing how to play the game is completely different.

The only thing different now is seeing skill points. That's all. Plain and simple.

yup I've kicked and been kicked, BUT not due to this app, its due to ppl not being able to complete content and not excusing themselves, therefor they get the boot. As I said its happen to me, sure I dont like it but hey look Im on my THIRD character on the road to T6 so it doesn't bother me, just pushes me to get there even more, so when I see those ppl asking for my role I can shout and laugh at em lmao

To be fair....

I just....

KICK...



App or No App.....

Lol nice!!!!!!

Like that old joke. I'm not prejudice, I don't like everyone equally.

My opinion on the app and the info it shares has not changed...I'm NOT a fan or supporter.

At the same time tho I have not been kicked from any content more or less than normal since its public appearence on these forums.

In all due respect, that's very inaccurate.

Some notable examples....

The ORIGINAL Halloween event. Released just after FTP, it was commonplace that new players were being kicked by those who could run the content solo or with one other player. This was for many the first introduction to a community that was more concerned with self gain than group involvement.

FOS2. Fire tanks were nearly completely unwanted because of the design of the bridge portion favoring the Inescapable Storm pulls of Ice tanks. The first justifications of omitting of a specific power set based on instance design.

Roleless buffs. To say this didn't adversely affect the tanks of DCUO upon it's inclusion to the game would be an abject statement of pure denial. It was highly detrimental for the tanks and, as time has passed, proven to be one of the most manipulated mechanics of the game. Within just 24 hours of the release of TD, shouts in LFG announcing that groups were deliberately NOT running with healers became more frequent that those looking for healers by a wide margin. Like the tanks, a specific role was now being devalued for the sake of speed due to design.

By far the worst aspect of game design that proved extremely detrimental were below CR requirement walkins. It was the first, greatest and most manipulated design factor in producing a community that was almost ENTIRELY focused on CR progress and produced an incredibly high percentage of players who did not gain real experience in their roles. There have been countless threads of how walkins polluted the community. No other factor in DCUO's history created the need to shout for CR requirements far beyond the minimum requirements necessary in an attempt to offset that inexperience and lack of SP, and to this day it is still common to see in almost every shout forming PUGs.

You do realize your examples affirm what I was saying, right?

Things the devs have added or designed are in the spirit of good nature players. How the community uses it, is not something they can control. They can try, but it only ends up hurting the good natured players, as the bad ones will still do whatever they want to whomever they want.

I would recommend watching this video.

apps or not, people were kicking by just inspecting way before the apps, with the apps if your undergeared that represent a gain of time for low cr, instead of being kick in the instance they are kicked outside

and for those low sp they are either:
-alt (small portion imo, most of people nowaday unlock a bunch of sp for their alt using replay badges)
-people who have been carried to endgame one way or another, most of which would have been kick anyway at one point or another
because the scoreboard would have proven them unexperimented with their role, power, or both.






personaly i'm only using it to see the cr and sp of ***** on my groups, then when they realised their pity cr105 53sp has been exposed , i be like

What if that 105 Combat Rating and 53 Skill Point player 'plays' well though?