Stats Revamp 1.4 - Nature Feedback

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Shin-O-B, Feb 24, 2017.

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  1. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    I've thought real hard about swarm and been running different scenarios with it vs other things and i myself was even thinking about if some of swarms damage was brought over to the dots but then in burst situations if swarm wasn't what it is now nature would fall behind where faster dps was needed cause of lack of burst. Even with swarm being good i can still keep pace and exceed its damage with electric and some other powers so while it is pretty good i think making it any weaker would hurt nature. (not being biased cause its my power either) Then if dots where stronger you and you had to set 2 or 3 of them up for add damage that takes a bit long and you fall behind doing that setup. My honest opinion after a few days of thinking and testing is it has its fair pros and cons.

    I've been doing a lot of thinking on it cause the last thing i want is for nature to be "OP" then get nerfed in the future and stink. Plus i don't want everyone jumping on my power lol

    Also i'd like to see thorn shield be like it is on live so you can use it for melee to spread/refresh dots. Right now its 12 seconds so if thats the only thing your using to spread its not gonna happen cause dots only last for 12 sec and whats the point of having another power on your bar to refresh thats just taking up a spot for no reason.

    Ugh and the transitions into wolf blahh i wish they could smooth that out.
  2. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    I totally get what you are saying, thats why i suggest that only a small portion of Swarm damage should be relocated on SG and Briar, that way you encourage a little bit more the Dot stacking theme that Nature DPS has, and makes a little bit more rewarding running the shape shifting loadout stacking all your Dots.

    Maybe on adds situation Nature would hit a little lower, but on long fights can recover that damage loss easily.
    I´m just against "One button wonders", but trust me that we are in the same boat of wishing to get Nature in a good spot, a version that last as long as it can before it need a revision in the future.
  3. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    I get where your coming from but you still won't keep up just using swarm and voracious on adds, you'll do good but not top vs someone good. Your still gonna need a real rotation using serpent,swarm,carnage, voracious and a super to keep up from the raids i have run. I didn't use chaotic either cause of the splitting issue and didn't want to skew my dps with it. . If just using swam,carnage, voracious and weapon combos i got pooped on. But i see your concerns i was having them as well at first.

    I'm waiting to see what the devs think also
  4. FiressDraygen Well-Known Player

    RiP Dog Form. I guess Nimrod and I can't go caking people in the Watch Tower anymore huh :/
    No more Cake Surfing. Better have fun while it lasts on Live.
    Those Live Streams were always fun to host.
  5. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    OK so i'm gonna say something else about swam, ugh i know give it up already. Some say i'm scared cause i don't want to see nature nerfed but thats not the case at all and i'm not worried about that one bit cause there are other powers that do just as well and some even better. What i'm afraid of in nature being to good then getting a future nerf.

    So you can read back my other thoughts on swarm but here are some other things i've been testing an thinking about. So swarm is a big part of natures damage and imo thats good. One reason is cause nature is pretty good on power efficiency so in some cases your able to spend more skill points in stats, but the thing is swarm doesn't scale off stats so while you might be able to put more stats in might its really not doing you as much good as it would if you were another power. So while you can increase your dps you can't increase it to the point of being to good the way things are at this moment.

    Now if you moved some damage over from swarm to make the dots stronger you still have the same power efficiency but now your getting more of a benefit from stats which would put nature over the edge of what electric can do then nature could start to be a little bit to good. I know the dots are really weak but i'm ok with that cause while i love nature and want it to be good i don't want it to be to good.

    Nature will benefit a player with lower skill points cause of swarm but a power like electric will benefit a player with more skill points. Also i didn't go into precision in this thread but i have tested it and more precision doesn't seem to be as good as it was in the past. Yea you do a little bit better but not like you think you would, maybe cause the buffs stink or powers just trumps weapon dps in this build cause of the emphasis of PftT.

    But hey if some want to say take away from swarm and give to the dots go ahead but don't cry when myself and other with high skill points beat you down and come crying on the forums lol
  6. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    I know to some it looks like i'm just trying to defend my power but i promise you thats not it. I made many suggestions and put up one heck of a fight in the electric thread and got some good compromises and changes made and i think electric turned out pretty well if you ask me. I don't take all the credit but my big mouth def helped bring it from a sad basically 1 dot power to what it is now. I'm just trying to do the same for nature and i will continue to do so for other powers as i make my way around as some of you have prob seen.

    I've been playing and diving in depth to the powers and how things work and impact things longer then a lot of people have been playing. I don't think i'm special or better then anyone else cause of that but i do know what lines to cross and where to draw the line with things. I think by now many people know that i always have the data to back up my claims, i might not always show it in the first 5 min cause i like people to get full of themselves and let them talk some trash first so when i do present my data they have to eat all their words and look like a fool lol. I guess thats rude but some people on the forums have it coming. :p
  7. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    I think Swarm is ok as it is. It gives us good burst damage for adds while stacking all Poison DoTs is good for boss fights.

    If Swarm's strength is spread between other DoTs we gonna be in same situation like at Live server with close to none burst potential and slow set up. We gonna be losing too much damage at adds which cant be made up for in boss fights unless other dpsers die all the time.
    • Like x 1
  8. MyDpsIsBetter Dedicated Player

    Coming from a career Gadgets player and long time fighter here for balance in all power sets, some players and posters have came to respect what I try to stand for. I can with a unbiased mindset say Nature currently is the ideal way it should be, nothing should be changed. I don't find it over powered and the play style fits the game in combat not on some training dummies. Nature and Electric are where they both should be. All credit goes to the testers and the great devs for the work they did on both power sets working with each other. I urge you all to leave nature dps alone and focus on the more pressing issues we have, such as rage and hard light issues.

    The state nature in currently is perfect (aside for the damage splitting issue with C.Plants and a few touch ups here and their) and many players on live will be grateful please do not ask for something that will set us back down the wrong path. I may not always agree with crappy we go back and fourth bouncing ideas and such with each other but when it comes to nature he understands the power set and how it plays in game and puts the same work into other power sets as well. I was quite when the gadgets revamp was up and I missed the chance to make my power set what it should be. Hopefully it's not to late to get it right I hope you trust us and leave nature how it is currently and be happy, taking damage from a burst move is never a smart idea talking about add it to a damage over time that makes no sense as we would have the current issue nature has on live with adds.
  9. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    I really just want some much needed healing changes to Nature.
    Some things just don't make much sense with its having it like straight hot is unique which is fine but it needs some beefing up. It's not effectual like burst.
    • Like x 2
  10. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    I actually think you should be defending your power, since that's what I do with gadgets. It's your love, watch it for things that can go wrong.

    With that said, Swarm does need an adjustment. Take this comparison video:

    I just test swarm and w/o even going into combat, I'm doing about 7.3k/s.
    I just test the dots and get about 3.6k/s.
    I test dots with vplants and get about 10.4k/s.
    I test all and get 20~21k/s.

    I think taking some damage away from swarm and adding it to the dots' base values would be a good thing. Otherwise, if you don't have swarm on your nature setup, you are doing it wrong.

    Edit: In retrospect, it could be related to pure power build and speccing might could even it out. I'll test that now.

    Edit2: I edged the just dots to about 4~5k/s. I also ended up making a pftt with swarm easily hit 21.9k/s in doing so. Yeah, swarm needs to spread the love to the high costing dots.
    • Like x 1
  11. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Its not much different for Electricity where you always have to run Electrocute or with Sorcery where you always need Fury but ok.

    Id be ok if Swarm's damage is reduced but both Savage Growth and Serpent Call(since they share a Poison DoT) get buffed by the amount cut from Swarm.

    Nefring Swarm and splitting the damage between all 3 Poison DoTs would be a terrible waste of resources.

    And BTW I cant believe that after 3 years with Nature being in the mud, now people are coming here concerned that it might end up too good. Im sorry that Gadget didnt turn too good but now Nature deserves it 15 minutes glory, Gadget had its turn multiple times already.
  12. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    You don't see a problem with must have powers. Question: Were you for or against AMs?

    Really? So you are okay with a pet that you don't even need to hit a power for just does it's thing in a stats update.

    I'm sorry, what?! I don't want Nature down, because Gadgets can't keep up. I want Gadgets to be brought up to Nature, but you can't deny Swarm is too good. WAY too good. When 90% of your damage comes from a single pet, that shows a problem. If they added it to the other dots, it would still be the same damage, but not just ONE power doing it.

    But if you want to go easy route and have a power that will probably get everyone to go to and then get nerfed, which we've seen happen many times (even to Gadgets quite a few times), okay.
    • Like x 3
  13. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    The relocated damage from Swarm should go to Savage Growth and Briar IMO.
    • Like x 1
  14. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    The only AM I was against from start was 1234Boom, never had problems or being against Combos, Mobile Channeling, DoTs or Pets. The only real issue with AMs was that not all powers were included to power return mechanics. You can see in my signature what I like to play.

    Like I said Id be ok if some of the damage goes to Savage Growth and Serpent Call since they are also AoE and it wont really hurt our burst potential.

    How is 90% of the damage coming from Swarm ?
    Swarm contributes no more than 40% of total damage, the rest are weapons, Poisons and VPlants. That way it is reassured that as long as you have Swarm you will do some damage but there is still a lot of room to fit in skill and speed for much much better results than just recasting Swarm.
  15. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    I'm gonna continue to advocate for healer side.

    Swarm is nice to use in a battle set up for healer role.
    That's a big reason why I'm not keen on moving swarms damage around. It's a reliable damage option.
    To see that gone would suck, honestly..
    If a Nerf to swarm's damage happens, you need to broaden the scope of battle healing ability and beefing up the hots of nature.

    Please consider adding Vine Lash, Thorn Shield, and Briar to the healing arsenal.
    I don't want to be limited to Gorilla Form to battle heal.. that defeats the purpose of even having an original toon in the first place.

    In DPS role, there will need to be more burst or higher dot strength.. nature would be badly underperforming in add and boss fights if that Nerf happens.
    Don't allow that to happen
  16. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    He's saying compared to the damage we do as a player, swarm does around 90% of it, he just posted a parsing video on youtube clarifying this with a PFtT loadout. While it remains true swarm only does around 40% of your total damage, the damage it does compared to the damage you do, is significantly higher.

    Watch the parses, so you can see for yourself what he meant
    • Like x 4
  17. WildPegasusrs Dedicated Player

    Dog form removed, really? o_O
    I'd trade the gorilla and insectoid form any day for it. Not only was it a fantastic self burst heal when in big trouble but also was a challenging way to regain power having to quickly switch between forms. Basically you traded your ability to heal the rest of the team or attack for a few seconds to attempt to restore some of your power to better help the team or yourself right after. It made for quite a challenging and fun play style but was especially efficient when confronted with tough solo situations.

    So far this update seems meh. As usual it is supposed to sound fantastic at first but then when things are unveiled, a reality check happens. I remember the point of the power update was to enable all power abilities from a power set to players for them to choose from and have a varied play style, you don't do that by limiting the effects and interactions of skills between themselves for that extent. For example pheromones effect should have been granted to many abilities instead of removing it from one and granting it to another. Reading through this, I'm still seeing predetermined best loadouts to have instead of opening the gates to a variety of possibilities by expending effects and interactions of skills (and not just for dps of course).
    • Like x 1
  18. Aqua Surge Loyal Player

    Personally, I think Swarm is too strong. The damage should be reduced a little bit and moved to either a dot or a burst power. The SC also needs to be fixed since it's not splitting damage and make it a 50% SC. I think it's like 25% and it's way too good to be a 25% SC.

    At this rate a Nature Damage with no Skill Points or even gear will still perform better thanks to the damage that Swarm is doing by itself.
  19. MyDpsIsBetter Dedicated Player

    Yall really cant leave well enough good huh smh... really about to ruin this powerset.
    • Like x 1
  20. Aqua Surge Loyal Player

    It's a fact. "Stats Matter", Swarm is not even affected by "stats". Someone with no skill points will be good with Nature and that isn't what we want. It's not like they're going to kill it. It's the first stage of testing Nature 1.4. I assume these three powers will go on testing to 1.6 or something. Then the next three powers will be the next focus.

    Mepps said the other powers will return as focus again too. At the moment Swarm can't be overlooked and a good Nature damage won't be standing there doing nothing. They will be doing their own thing and Swarm will be doing way too much of "its own thing".
    • Like x 3
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