Stats Revamp 1.4 - Nature Feedback

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Shin-O-B, Feb 24, 2017.

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  1. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    So you see how you just edged up the dots with a little bit more might and did better. Just imagine if more of swarms damage was added to the dots then you would be able to get even better results by having more stats, but with swarm you can't change the stats so its harder to manipulate your dps through stats.

    I guess you really didn't get where i was coming from before but do you see now how just by adding some more might how you where able to pick up your dps. That would be a even bigger increase if the dots where better.

    Yea swarm is good and it may have to be in all your loadout but so are plenty of powers from other power sets and at the end of it all they all get to the same place, well the good powers anyway the end result is the same even with swarm being good but its like that for reasons i've stated i'm guessing.

    The only thing that i think should be fixed is how it attacks when your not in combat. And 90% of your damage doesn't come from swam.
  2. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    It's not 90% of the damage, it's about 50%. 90% of damage that comes from stats. 11k/s from dots and 7~8k/s for swarm. That's a lot of the damage that comes from a pet.

    Seriously, a lot.

    In the end, I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. I specced heavy into might and it made it jump about 2k/s more. In that regard, it still doesn't hold up. Since pets are CR based, you will always do less than a pet. What I'm asking is they snip off some of the damage from a pet and add it to the power dots that are might based. Where, in a stat update, your stats should improve it. Overall damage output will be the same, just now you would have an option to not use swarm if you don't want to.

    I do acknowledge what Fatal Star and Sage Rapha said about no real "Battle" options for a Nature healer. That's a big damage loss with Swarm in that regard, but I also think that DoTs attached to a HoT power should be going while in healer stance. The fact that they split harvest up, also lowered the damage on healer side as well.
  3. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Ugh am i going to have to break out the data sheets....yes swarm is good but no matter what you can't change it with stats so while nature is one of the more power efficient powers you can't take those skill points out of power and put them into might and put nature over the top. While you can make it better you can't put it over the top as things are, but if some of swarms damage is moved to the dots now you can take those extra points and put them in might and now you can bring the damage over the top.

    I've made several posts addressing swarm but all people see is it does good damage but they don't think of why of what would come if the dots were stronger or swarm was weaker. you can go back and read the post i've posted on previous pages if you want to know more of what i talked about regarding swarm.
    • Like x 1
  4. CrappyHeals Devoted Player



    And this is what i've been trying to explain i don't think you are getting me. If dots are stronger i can make them stronger with skill points pushing their damage up. And since nature is a little more power friendly you have more points to put into stats. So with dots being a bigger part of your dps now you can raise your dps even more by specing into might. So while swarm might be weaker you can make your dots stronger thus pushing nature over the top, but you can't push swarms damage so its takes much more skill points with swarm being strong to seriously increase your dps. Make dots stronger and it takes less skill points to increase your dps.

    Edit and the dots and swarm are like they are so you have to run both together so you have to do more and use more power. If it was like live where you just tossed your dots up and did well that would be even more power friendly and you can blow your stats up even more for better results.
  5. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Putting them into the DoTs and putting it over the top when you have the ability to do so. Isn't that the theme of the stats matter changes? By leaving it well enough alone, there will be a finite ceiling you will hit, that you can't edge more. Especially if you have sp for it.

    Take Rage for example, it trails Nature with Swarm by 1~2k with the stats we have. Once more stats get put in, it will just increase even more. Having the base values of the dots increased will just make swarm less mandatory and put more on your skill and your skill points.
  6. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    I actually understand what you are saying. I really do. But your reasoning leaves some points in the wrong order.


  7. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    Just to add, Swarm would be even better for PVP, i mean seriously just one cast (300) that can do almost half of your damage for 15 secs. PVP its all about counters and power management, there is no ability on Test Server that can pull off that damage for that power cost.

    I wish that this revamp will end up with the closest thing to balance we can achieve. Devs, do the numbers and look into the Future, nobody wants more "revisions" after the Stats Revamp its released because of OP abilities.
  8. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Things can be adjusted separately for pvp so thats not a issue. and its 350:p
  9. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    I under stand i'm kinda putting a ceiling on nature by wanting to keep swarm how it is but i really don't want it to be to good. I def want to be rewarded for having more skill points and i will be but not in a way where everyone on live is nature cause its super good. And swarm will always be mandatory cause the dots and swarm are kinda split so you have to use both, even if more damage leaned in favor of dots you would still use swarm.

    And you can't really talk about rage right now cause its missing some things and there are some loadouts with it that i can put up 26-27k averages with a power spec and only might in my gear.
  10. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player


    Brace yourself. Electric and Nature will be the poster boy's for Nerf City, Because the sad scorecard chasing folks can't stand it when another powerset that isn't their own beats them in DPS out.


    Regards-someone who's put up with Electricity's poor DPS side on Live.
  11. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    But since it is CR based, it does have a ceiling on it. So when you start to get more and more stats, your damage will never really increase as much as other powers would. It will go up, but only by the level of gear stats you get. If it was snipped and added to the base values of the dots or burst or both, you could eventually overpass it with damage using another power potentially leaving it off your bar altogether.
    Hybrid is throwing a lot of things off right now. Been talking to Penryn about Gadgets too. In any case, I'm talking PftT.

    In the end of it all, I really hate Pets, as they break the whole "stats matter" theme. Since you can't increase them at all.
  12. Karasawa Loyal Player

    In a raid, how much of your damage will come from Swarm? How much Power will it cost you? How much damage would that Power investment get you when using your other abilities? How much effort does it take? How much do your stats affect its performance? Should a Healer be able to attain so much damage without investing into any DPS stats?

    I'm a little disappointed that so many people just don't seem concerned by these questions.
    • Like x 2
  13. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Don't want swarm nerfed, I want other powers bought in line with it. Whats the point of removing AMs to give people more options when were right back to having that one cookie cutter loadout or gimmick that you need to put out the best damage?
    • Like x 1
  14. CrappyHeals Devoted Player


    When we are all the same cr i feel swam keeps nature in check among high end players (stat wise). Man i'd love the dots to be stronger cause nature has been dodo for so long but i just don't wan't to over do it. I can already come close to pushing nature above what im comfortable with compared to other power with stats now but again swarm is keeping nature in check. At the end of the day its up to the devs to make a decision. Hey if they want to take some off swarm and put it on the dots and be ok with stats being able to have more of a affect thats also fine with me. I'm just putting up my opinion on overall balance.
  15. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    Na other powers get up there to and we're gonna try and make sure they all do before this is over.
    • Like x 2
  16. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    This × 1000. We as testers need to make sure powers go to live well balanced with vareity.
    • Like x 2
  17. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    What Crappy is saying is that Swarm keeps Nature in check while from my perspective it is also keeping it versatile.

    Nature lacks 200 power cost PI utilizing burst but instead of these Swarm is a bit stronger than other power sets' main DoT power.

    If Swarm becomes weaker and Poison DoTs were stronger, we gonna die a lot at entry Cr with no modding in solos and duos since in the first few seconds of a fight adds will do a lot more damage to us than we can do to them while setting up 4 DoTs, so we would have to resort almost only to Weapon damage for adds.

    Then later stronger Poison DoTs would outperform anything at maximum Cr and fully modded making Nature #1 Dps for boss fights.
    Once nature sets up all DoTs, it becomes very power efficient so making Might stat to scale even better via Poison DoTs will have significant effect with high SP and good mods.

    Why would I not want to use Swarm?
    In any case it will be faster than any other power Nature has for adds and it can be pre casted.

    In boss fights Im gonna use another armory with Wolf.
    Im gonna need to fill Human Loadout with 5 abilities + Wolf Form and then Wolf Loadout will need another 5 abilities+ Change back to Human. What else Im gonna want to use instead of Swarm ?
    • Like x 2
  18. CrappyHeals Devoted Player


    And what i hilighted in red is where having dots become more of your damage and more effected by stats pushes nature over the edge.

    Also another good point that you brought up that i mentioned before is in small content and short fights like adds in raids. With swam being weak then nature is back to setting up all those dots and not doing well in those situations, but having swarm like its is while its not as good as the burst some powers have it keeps nature hanging with other powers. You still have to use more then swam and voracious but swarm is such a help in those areas as it is.

    And what i hilighted in green is another reason why swam is strong its cause nature lacks bust. Just cause something doesn't work like something else doesn't mean it broken or needs a adjustment, you have to look at things form all points of view and end results. I'm glad nature sticks more with the dot theme but sticking with that you also need a strong dot for other situations. I don't picture nature with a bunch of burst options like other powers.

    All and all i think nature is in the perfect place and nothing should be changed dps wise. Except the super and a few bugs but you know what i mean.
    • Like x 1
  19. MAXILIANO Loyal Player

    I've been testing nature this weekend, and I was amazed at the high cost of the powers!
    It is by far the power that I tested at higher costs! Powers with 6000, 7000 cost ?!
    How absurd! And the worst, no healing power that heals completely, or at least a great part of life!
    Now I understand why when I was in the tank, with little life, and I saw the healer with a little power and even then, my life would not rise and I would die!
    The healer simply did not have enough power to heal me, and he had no ability that could heal at once!
  20. MyDpsIsBetter Dedicated Player

    Fatal I def agree but you know how this about to play out history repeats itself the move about to nerf nothing brought inline and nature back to struggling vs adds...We play a game where your punished for being faster then others so the games slowed down by removing jump cancels, it even went far as taps removing am damage how do you see this playing out.
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