Stat Flattening and Relative CR Scaling: What the heck are they?

Discussion in 'Oracle’s Database (Guides)' started by Remander, Apr 16, 2015.

  1. Crimson Mayhem Loyal Player

    If it's actually on a per-piece or real ECR basis then gear Defense really has no meaning anymore as any given piece would have a static mitigation rate. Think of power cost increases, iirc they go off each single piece too. If it's rounded ECR (the integer value shown in the UI) based then there's at least some wiggle room since the closer you get to the next CR the higher your mitigation gets. Most room is if it's actually soft tier based since then it would be quite close to the old system. I doubt it is though since in all official information there was talk of scaling with CR and nothing of tiers.
    In any case I think we can agree that the Defense innates still aren't worth it. Not the SP for 20 Defense each and surely not the Power Point for 200.
  2. Remander Steadfast Player

    My thought processes were arriving at that same conclusion. The meager defense innates likely won't have a significant impact, even with the increases.
  3. BigBadDogIV Committed Player

    You know i've said this before but i'll say it again. I really think they should consider giving us 2 entirely separate PVE queuing options.

    The first one would be one that does stat clamping if your higher then the content. It would lower your stats down to the maximum that were possible at the time of the contents release. This queue would also have matchmaking just like they do now.

    The second would would have no form of stat clamping or stat lowering of any sort. But it would also have no matchmaking option. You only go in with the people already in your group (basically it's a walk-in that you can just queue up for instead of actually walking in).

    This would fix the issue that we have now where t1, t2, and t3 are effectively not playable or at the very least not enjoyable anymore since i've never found anything enjoyable about watching someone else 1 shot the raid boss i was looking forward too actually fighting.
  4. Fies Committed Player

    Finally took the time to read it all. Good guide.
    Do you actually have the "Average hit (Remander)" pre GU47 graph- would be interesting for me. If not its a bit too late now I guess :)
  5. Remander Steadfast Player

    Unfortunately, no. Never did this sort of testing, until GU 47 hit the test server, and wasn't really feasible to reproduce it on the live server. Would be interesting to see, I'll admit.
  6. Lux Aeterno Level 30

    Can't expect any less from the main man himself! Awesome stuff Rem and thanks again for the help bro! This may just make me want to sign back up!
    • Like x 1
  7. jamesbopp43 Committed Player

    I noticed a lot of the guide was written prior to GU47. Have you gone back to update the charts at all? There seemed to be mistakes in the state flattening, I'm curious if it got fixed when it went live.

    Also, since the thread has gotten fairly long, any revelations that could be added to the first post would be nice (such as damage mitigation formulas).
  8. Remander Steadfast Player

    Shiny Mackerel has actually calculated the CR scaling. I never did that. The original posts were to explain the concepts. I added some actual testing to show how it works. I don't really have the inclination to work out ask the details. Even if I did, there are folks who wouldn't care and would still call it stat clamping, lol!
    • Like x 1
  9. jamesbopp43 Committed Player

    Lol, they would call it that. I just wanted a resource that I can provide and explain from. Just wasn't sure if it all got confirmed or not. Do you have a link to Shiney's work? Or is it in this thread. I can search if so
  10. Remander Steadfast Player

    He incorporated it into his combat log analyzer, I believe.
    • Like x 1
  11. Remander Steadfast Player

    For those who think mods and SP don't matter in the face of CR scaling, here are some data from the balance testing that's been going on.

    For Tunso Testing (TT):
    • Full un-modded CR 126, except we DO use the Max Damage mod
    • About 100 skill points spent (no WM) to purchase weapons attacks and all basic DPS crit traits
    • Weapons Expert and Tactical Genius Iconic DPS traits
    • No trinkets, consumables, outside temporary buffs not specifically part of the power or other Mainframe mods or buffs outside of Max Damage.
    Might = 8255
    Precision = 2796

    For Live Testing (LT):
    • Fully modded for optimal spec (full might, full precision, or balanced) CR 126, Max Damage and Core Strength mods
    • 160 SP allocated to optimal spec (full might, full precision, or balanced) with all basic DPS crit traits
    • Weapons Expert and Tactical Genius Iconic DPS traits
    • No trinkets, consumables, outside temporary buffs not specifically part of the power
    • League Hall damage proficiencies: +3% damage out, +1% crit chance/damage, and +3% might/precision
    • Lair mainframe 6.2 mods (might, precision, or balanced)
    Full precision spec:
    Might = 8874 (+619)
    Precision = 4831 (+2035)

    To be fair, modding gear for affinities also provides +5% crit chance. So, you get that plus the +10% damage buff from Core Strength with the live spec. Hard to estimate the effect of the +5% crit chance on DPS, but Core Strength would just improve it by 10%.

    Tunso Test Avg DPS = 17676
    Live Test Avg DPS = 24350

    Difference = 37.8%

    If you account for the +10% across the board from CS and +3% from the League Hall proficiency, you still need to come up with about 22% more damage. The +5% crit chance and +1% crit chance/damage from the League Hall proficiency isn't going to get you there. You get +266 might and +145 precision with that 3% League Hall buff, FWIW.

    FWIW, Celestial is on the lower end of the scaling. That's because it's already strong at range, while it also has no melee buff. Basically, it's damage is the same at range and melee. Most of the other powersets, except the pets, scale at 40-50% from TT to LT.
    • Like x 3
  12. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    No Base mods or proficiencies. Neck Mod is allowed. But I understand the point you were trying to make.
  13. Remander Steadfast Player

  14. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    that is a really good question. I may use them. I am wondering now if I don't have prec ones in which has probably skewed some of my recent tests.