No Grounded in elite.. can we stop this trend

idk what you guys are talking about nerfing a movement mode

im simply stating if adds are about to come out just like those on the ground have to be aware of it maybe their should be something in the air that flight players also have to be aware of course your not going to spawn a bunch of adds in the air but some kind of other aoe you must avoid would be fine

if theirs some kind of one shot beam, charge or something coming out that targets ground players maybe their should be some kind of one shot that targets those who are flying as well.

OR

Make more raids have the grounded factor where everyone deals with the same thing

OR

make better mechanics that target everyone in the group. you can still fly or whatever you want to do but certain things would be unavoidable. you have to block no matter what, you have to dodge no matter what for example spindrift station elite last boss

But you do care otherwise you wouldn't be asking they be grounded... you obviously care a lot otherwise whether or not thet avoided the mechanics wouldn't bother you.

In fact I'd go as far as asking how is it even affecting your own personal experience?

Is your experience detrimentally affected somehow because X9BatmanL33tXx is flying in the sky avoiding red death?

You're acting like they're speed hacking...

Have they e broken through the confines of the map? Have they used a power they shouldn't have?

Is their an exploit happening or is their just someone using a movement mode as intended.

Perhaps we should disable all movement completely, if fliers can't fly then ss can't run not even remotely.

Disable their double jump, disable zip line and while we're at it say goodbye to dash attack, are you ok with that.

Because that's fairness.

LOL! This is EXACTLY what this thread have lifted. One of those existing mechanics is the grounded-function, I don't think anybody is saying it's the only functioning mechanic. The whole point of the thread is to actually (again, if you read the OP) make sure to stop the possibility of just stacking Flight to almost completely bypass the mechanics of a bossfight, making it 100% easier in unintended ways.

Meanwhile, you and some others have just been too busy trying to undermine what others say with nonsensical counters like "So gO fLIgHt" or "yOu MUsT hATe FLigHt!"

If you just disable flight, that's a movement nerf, if you disable all movement period then that's fine, if you can't engage superspeed and get your dash attack etc. then cool.

Can't imagine people will be happy though lol, that's the thing it's all good and well right, until it starts affecting your movement

I do agree with their being air attacks 100%

I care about an instance and it's mechanics being abided by in intended ways. If all you need is Flight to get an advantage that completely changes the dynamics of the fight in an Elite-instance, I don't see it being very intended and perhaps a change somewhere is needed. That's where feedback on a forum comes in and then it's completely up to the Devs to decide if something needs to be done, not up to you. At all. Lol.

I've seen you take jabs at players countless times for various methods of cheesing, pretty sure you yourself have mentioned Flight in that regard before too, funny how now it's suddenly "Meh YoU ComPLaiN?! MusT HaTE FlIGht! I R LoGiC! hurr durr"

No, i'm not acting like they are speedhacking, I'm acting like some can just fly UP and instantly not have to worry about a lot of things that makes certain fights challenging, which again doesn't sound very intended to me.

It's about time you start adressing what players are actually adressing rather than coming with these weak, made up counters that you just decide is "the reason".

id be down with no movement in elite personally but your right it probably would piss people off. i always felt your suppose to be pissed and angry in elite anyway its not suppose to be easy content.

i just threw in grounded because id imagine its the easiest way to not bypass mechanics. ln the future id like to see more mechanics added to elite raids where you can still fly but not just have it used to the point where its a comfort zone.

That's because cheese might be cheese, but it isn't exploiting, too many people go around acting like it's exploiting.

Even now you've made your own assertion about whether it's intended or not, you equally have no right to dictate what the devs decide is and isn't intended.

I simply don't agree with you and obviously nor do we have to agree of course.

Using flight automatically has to be assumed as intended just as equally as activating any other movement mode within an instance.

There's far too much assuming that the developers haven't already considered grounding in in instances and chosen not to apply it, as you've said it's an existing mechanic and if they wanted it there, it'd already be there.

What they're really trying to do is allow a greater level of flexibilty however, some people just lose their minds if fliers can fly at all, just because it's elite content doesn't mean you disable flight either.

I notice you didn't answer my question about losing your super speed and acro, you cool with that?

Grounding is a cheap nasty mechanic utilized in my opinion when they either can't or don't develop air mechanics.

More often than not too there are actually air mechanics and situational awareness is still required when flying, fliers just avoid some mechanics.

Unfortunately too many people think the fliers are just up their closing their eyes 'guns ablazin, I'm amazin' right pew pew pew.

That really isn't true at all, certainly not the degree to which many players like to make you believe.

Something ironic too when some players were made to swim which was flying they lost their minds and demanded they be grounded even though it obviously gave them the advantage, You literally cannot win lol

I don't think the OP mentioned exploiting even once, neither did I see many others stating that either, meanwhile you're here trying to undermine feedback based on reasons you yourself made up, rather than what is actually being adressed.

I couldn't care less if we are in agreement or not, but if you think it's fine to just fly UP and gain immense advantages that changes the dynamics of the mechanics within fights, stand by it, rather than trying to undermine what's being adressed in the thread with reasons you yourself made up.

This is again entirely up to the Devs to determine and if this is the case I am sure they will swoop in here sooner or late and state so. In the meantime, it shouldn't stop players and forumers from adressing their feedback on it, lol.

Well, i'm glad you noticed something, because you've seemingly ignored every important piece of feedback addressed in here so far. I'm okay with restrictions to any movement mode in any Bossfight where said movement mode not being restricted results in being able to completely bypass almost entire mechanics and/or dangers, leading to a much, much easier fight than seemingly intended. Did I answer to your satisfaction? I'm sure you'll find ways to twist it around and bend it to your will, if not. Go nuts, don't hold back.

Actually you know what, no, i do not have a problem with someone flying in an instance to avoid mechanics.

They've chosen to fly that's their power, deal with it right, are flight powers allowed to cry every time they see someone use whirling dervish or dash attack to gain an advantage.

Lets just spam that dash attack, oh look at all these beautiful green circles, so cool... oh well i guess i can fly at least.

No you don't flier you get down here and deal...

Perhaps if we put mechanics in the air we could put dash in every movement tree, perhaps we could put a whirling dervish in every movement tree.

Are you seeing my point, I imagine not because you're too worried about shutting down my feedback under the premise that im shutting down others...

Im not actually stopping anyone from providing feedback, in fact if anything you're attempting to railroad me out of this thread because i dared to disagree lol.

For the record.

1. Fliers should never be grounded.
2. There can and should be challenges regardless of movement.
3. If you disable one movement mode you disable them all regardless of mechanics present

"No". But we're not gonna hear that take, so instead...

This isn't the first time someone's suggested destroying the Flight ability's viability entirely because of the occasional advantage of "not having to stay on the ground" that it provides. Like, sometimes the floor is lava, and that sucks, but there's no point in having flight as an option for a movement style if you're going to restrict it into functional uselessness in any large content.

Just because you chose a movement to be able to fly, doesn't directly mean you have the right to bypass entire mechanics or dangers by flying UP while other movement modes have to abide by what comes down to a completely different fight. And that's what this entire thread comes down to.

You keep talking about dash attacks and other stuff, trying to create scenarios that no one but yourself brought to this thread. This whole "people just hate flight"-angle you keep going to is completely baseless and the only thing you're doing by keep bringing that nonsense up is just undermining and ignoring what is actually being addressed.

You didn't just dare to disagree, you swooped in here trying to tell everyone that the reasoning for the feedback brought up was something completely different than what was again actually being addressed. It's funny how you keep trying to strawman this and don't realize how silly it is, because if ANYONE ELSE had come at you with a similar angle in an argument around these boards, you'd tear them down in a heartbeat. Just stop it, lol.

1. Why not? That's like saying a Speedster shouldn't be slowed down in Combat, just because they're "SUPER speed".
2. But in the examples brought up in the thread, especially in the OP doesn't and that's why the thread exists.
3. At this point you seem to be the only one going as far as disabling movement modes.

Actually incorrect.

You're missing my point completely, the dash attack argument isn't hypothetical it's an equal comparison you're choosing to ignore because it pulls apart your position.

There's no strawmanning going on because im actually making my position transprent meanwhile you're wiggling, squirming and avoiding any questioning of the logic behind your position.

To make my position clear again.

1. If you introduce mechanics in the raid that are airborne then i have no issue with that and the entire argument about whether you ground players is irrelevant.

With that being said however are we then going to hear from ss players that the air mechanics are easier or vice versa?

2. If you ground fliers then you have removed their movement ability and nerfed any advantage they had whatsoever, meanwhile ss and acro retain their more natural quicker combat speed giving then a greater movement advantage albeit on the ground.

3. If you don't nerf ss and acro in the same way they also retain other movement powers that give them a fundamental advantage like dash attack for example, why should they keep dash attack when a flier can't fly for example? Why should they be able to run any faster than the ground flight player?

My point which you're so abundantly missing is that if you're going to nerf movement you do it across the board otherwise this is no longer about balance it's about you not wanting someone to have an advantage in a circumstance where you don't, but you certainly want to keep yours.

Well said mate.

No you keep using it as a counter-argument where nobody is saying that It or anything else should work more/better than Flight. You're the one trying to force this scenario to derail what is actually being said.

Any questioning? You asked you got an answer. Transparent? LMAO!!! You have done NOTHING but trying to tell people that their feedback is only being brought up because "they hate flight!". Not even you can miss how silly your arguments are getting at this point, come on.

1. Once again this entire thread lifts this very phenomenon. Meanwhile, you've been busy trying to tell people that their reason for they're feedback is because they are a "flight hater" lol.

2. This is true, if the grounding were to be permanent during the entire fight.

3. You're the only one talking about a so called "nerf", lol. You are also the only one assuming that people only want to hammer on Flight while SS and Acro will go unaffected. In reality, what this thread is adressing, is punishment across all movement modes. That happens to include flight. Sorry, now i'm a flight hater, right.

You keep trying to tell me I am missing something in your point while you have been completely, outright ignoring and even tried to undermine and derail the very feedback that the OP and posts within it adresses. I say to you again, whenever you feel like doing so, please adress what actually is being discuss and skip the strawman and baseless "flight hater"-angle.

Thank you.

Oh please drop the pretentious, i don't understand the discussion angle it's horribly tragic.

Focus on the discussion we're having not the assumption you think i have.

This topic is about flight, the op is about ensuring that flight players not avoid mechanics and undermine the instance, fair enough, despite the fact i disagree that they always are because i think theres a high level of ignorance stemming from players who don't even play flight, i still agree there should be a challenge.

This is achieved in two ways, you ground the player, an established mechanic or you develop new mechanics...

If you ground the player then i assert and this is my assertion you have to remove the other movements too so all, not just some, all movement abilities that obtain any kind if advantage no matter how insignificant you feel it is be removed.

Im not sure i can make that any clearer for you.

As for the flier hate" issue, i stand behind that comment too many people get upset because they're seeing people fly, so they ask for grounding because they don't like the fact that flier isn't having to deal with what they're dealing with and they see it as unfair.

You don't have to like that position or belief of mine and nor am i asking that you share it, but it certainly is the one i hold and looking at numerous other posts in this thread it would seem it's a view shared by others also, given there's numerous other posts suggesting you ignore what the fliers are doing and worry more about yourself

Oh, thank you.

You're directly telling me to focus on what hasn't been adressed. How about you just outright tell me what to say that best serves you? lol. Come on.

Where's that high level of ignorance? The entire OP is far from depicting the picture you've been really willing to try and force here.

That depends on if you decide to permantently ground. Like you said, there are two ways, there is no ONE way to go about this, as the OP wants a solution to the issue and I haven't recalled anyone in here saying there's this ONE way that has to be done in order to achieve what's wanted here.

You don't have to make it clearer for ME, you just finally started addressing what's been discussed all along. Good for you.

You can stand behind it all you want for whatever good that does to you, but it's completely baseless as a counter-argument in regards to what this thread is about. I find very little in this thread that even remotely hints at a fraction of this "flight hate"-angle you've tried to push.

Suggesting that people should just "ignore what the fliers are doing" when it comes down to a potential issue of unintended ways of completing content is silly. Should we all just have that same attitude toward any other discrepancies? Screw it if the guy next to me is exploiting, I should just do me and ignore him, right? I'm sure you realize how much of a copout of an excuse this is. On that very note, anyone who doesn't like us so called "flight haters" don't have to be in this thread, right? Just ignore the thread and fly fly away toward greener pastures, right?

This is a discussion thread that numerous people are involved in, instigated by an op, but not hanging on their every word for further discussion.

You keep reverting back to the op like im somehow ignoring him when clearly I am not, he may not be hating on flight but that doesn't mean others here aren't, don't at times or won't.

You'll see the very first post I responded too gave a somewhat twisted view of the advantage flight players have.

Again people like to put across this perception that fliers are just cheap and can ignore absolutely everything when that is 100% incorrect and misleading whether or not there needs to be more of a challenge is debatable to act like there is absolutely zero challenge at all is intellectually dishonest.

I never said there was only one way to fix it, you've self interpreted that as my position, what ive made clear is that i don't agree grounding should be one of them.

That isn't me saying it isn't a solution, it's me saying i don't like it as a solution and ive outlined the reasons.

The irony of course is that if you do use that as a solution you create a double standard where the ss and acro players retain advantages but flight does not when that was the very thing they were arguing against in the first place.

The reason i say "flight hate" too is because you know full well that's why some players want flight grounded it's not about balance, it's about getting rid of something someone else has that they don't have, not only that it's that they don't have access to it.

Theyre not prepared to own the pros and cons of that movement choice they made and they're not prepared to go flight in the circumstances because they don't want you lose what they have with ss or acro.

It is the perfect example of wanting their cake and eating it too, that may not be you specifically but there are numerous people out there like that.

This is raised by me because it is a motivating factor behind these discussions that needs to be included within the context of the ongoing conversation.

Understanding the motive behind change can be just as important as understanding the requested change itself.

I have been discussing the topic all along you just didn't like the first post i made towards you so just engaged immediate defense mode.

It's interesting though that at the end of your post you clearly consider flight to be an exploit, no longer cheese, but exploit...

Is activating flight mode any more of an exploit than say body blocking a boss or using quantum tunnel?

Is it ok for quantum users to use tunnel to evade mechanics, i mean i ask honestly dude how far do you go to eliminate things you subjectively consider cheese or in your words possibly even an exploit?

Gonna jump right to this because I knew you were gonna try and act as if you are not just constantly trying to derail what has actually been said and just address this very part, because I knew you were going to do this.

Read what I said there again, one more time, without trying to twist it into something else. I am not, I repeat I am NOT considering flight an exploit. I used your very copout excuse in regards to "ignore X and do you" with other discrepancies and exploits as an example to show you just how much of a copout excuse it really is that you were presenting.

If you ACTUALLY want to discuss the topic, skip the derail-tactics and stick to what is actually, again is being said. This is beyond silly. Thank you.

The swarm isn't even a mechanic, it's just like a mosquito damage over time, if you die or come close to death due to the swarm that already speaks volumes about that player.



over a 8 min fight 2nd boss and he was grounded 6 times and seeing how bad this player was from dying to the 1st charge do you think he was observing where he was falling to make sure there was no tornado? definitely not and after a few seconds on the ground its right back up into the sky. Where players on the ground would routinely have to deal with multiple tornado's tracking their location and when they stacked it could easily lead to a death.






I mean yea Proxy lets just fly up in the sky and pull the adds up and down and just hold block to get immunity or the adds can't even land combos on you because you are flying. How about just have the dps or the healer fly ("swim") the entire time completely out of any danger from murk charges or adds. Yes that is a great show of elite completion ability.

With respect to other movement powers sure go ahead and nerf phase dodge and wirrling dervish i'd like nothing more. I'm not saying flight has to be permanently in a raid but there has to be real mechanics similar to that of Machine elite but much more frequent to not have the flight movement borderline exploit raid mechanics. How do you think DWF would have went without the restrictor drones and fliers flying above all the dmg pools and the fire trails? how about that Proxy?

Oh and i'm sure you would be perfectly fine with this following video and all the tactics used right? right Proxy that is your argument here