It's too easy to get to EG.

Fair enough, I appreciate what you're saying, it's nice to throw ideas around about this stuff.

Im not sure you'll teach everything about a role in any tutorial, although you can do your best.

Not really your idea. It’s been suggested many times by numerous players

Did you know there is no consistency amongst Controllers when it comes to what level they learn a particular debuff?

Just to see if I could, I made a fire tank, leveled it to 353 in less than 25 hours, and ran (and completed) all the new stuff. Ended with 50 something sp. Was easy, however I been playing since launch so that helps with knowing shortcuts…..the way the game is designed it works just fine.

Man, I wish I wasn't getting the same kinds of vibes I got when seeing people play the "you must be this tall to ride the ride" games back when gear checks were commonplace.

Gating progression behind any particular content is, to me, a bad move. It's one of the reasons why I avoided one MMO in particular (there were many other reasons, but that one at the time didn't help LOL). I think players respond better to a "here's what you CAN do in this game" setup better than a "here's what you're GOING to do" situation. Trying to force players into a situation they don't like or don't want to do can just end up leading to resentment and a lack of engagement. That's why I think forcing tutorials could end up backfiring, but that's a different conversation taking place in the thread.

I like that the game is open to play in this way. Even if I don't take advantage of them, I like having the options available to me. Trying to gate someone because they haven't run a particular raid or alert just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The way I see it, if there was a Tier restriction in place until Player One completes Raid X before "graduating" to the next tier, that just might be much better as it demonstrates Player One has what it takes to clear Raid X and progress. I am also opposed to gating though, so I don't know what kind of compromise can be developed other than just leaving things as is.

DCUO already forces players into situations they don't like within certain instances and the resentment and lack of engagement is real for me in those certain instances. But I am a nobody who doesn't matter; just another account number.

One of the problems with using a raid to gate progress is the same problem that low tier content perpetually has: finding people to run the instance with who can get through it. Beyond that, there are a number of raids whose mechanics are not clear at all without a player who already knows those mechanics (I only knew about the “only tanks damage war spirit” now-gone mechanic in that Amazon Fury raid because of a helpful stranger, and I’ve still never played DWF because of the mechanics folks keep talking around, tbh), and I’m not sure the test then is about “knowing how to do your role / play the game” and not “knowing someone who can explain the mechanics.”

ironically i first typed "my idea" and changed it to "this idea" before posting, because i assumed somewhere, someone has said it before. however, i am the one saying it now, repeatedly, and will continue to do so.

so I am aware of calling it "my idea" and i didnt then, and i hope i didnt before, but if i did, i apologize!

I'm 100% down with letting everyone do what they want to do...except muck up my runs...because repeatedly failing runs is not what I want to do. I get it, I'm not a fan of 'forcing' people to do anything either, but I do expect people to learn how to do certain things as to less impact others they run with. I don't think a few hurdles is too much to ask, and yeah, maybe my exact suggestion is a bit too much....but something similar that makes it so the first raid you are ever in, fresh off a skip token and a few hours of solo runs or GW farming ISN'T something at endgame where you can wreck things for 7 other people. Having 'wipe the group' mechanics isn't doing any of these uninformed players any favors BTW....that's on DI, not the players.

And I100% believe there should be some sort of 'tutorial' mission at 30 that requires a bit of knowledge on doing a role. Nothing world ending, but something that makes it so if you queue as a role, you've at least been informed that there are powers you should use to DO that role and that 'switch role' or an armory switch is part of that. There are many where these are foreign concepts. And for those that don't want to do role, or don't want to run the tutorial...no problem, they just can't queue as that role.

I think you'd see less of a problem if you had a new crop of people looking for that raid. Yeah, for switch/xbox it might be tough, but I'd wager we have dozens of new players coming in on PC/PS daily....thats a bunch of people who'd all want Khandaq (or whatever) any given week, and because MOST of those players wouldn't be vets but people looking for that progress point, the chances they'd learn something vs just being carried by 3 or 4 vets is lower. Maybe AQS goes in at the same time to enable 6 or 7 to run vs trying to fill the missing spots...even from Omni. And yes....only a raid with clear mechanics should be picked. ToTD (old mechanics) would not be a good one.

A mandatory progress point raid would be similar to how when content was new, EVERYONE in that raid had their first attempt probably in a run with 3 or 4 of the other people in the group. You'd learn the mechanics together, wipe a few times as a group. And you'd walk out generally having learned something.

What we have today is where anything that is tough is not worth trying more than 1 time (except feat runs), as you can always walk out and hope to land in something easier, or just take a knee and let the run finish. There is no need to 'overcome' the run you struggle on....like a DWF. And the 'struggle' runs are generally where you learn the most (whether you want to or not).

And yeah, not knowing roles and not knowing mechanics are not the same thing. A raid 'progress point' wouldn't help with the role issue, BUT if you are wanting that checkbox, you might be more incentivized to learning your role and doing it properly to get the job done.

'My idea' of how a tutorial could work from Dec 2020.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...in-high-cr-content.313116/page-4#post-4369365

totally onboard

"so similar to the Artifacts mission" and now we can include ally mission as well, although ppl STILL dont know where the ally menu is after doing the mission. i see this question a lot in the House of Legends. I try to help and explain it the best i can, but it can be difficult. many dont know that when u pull up the inventory, all those icons on the bottom are actual menu tabs.

I don't personally care if there is an ally mission or not. Your ally really won't make or break a run, also as new Allies come out, if there are any opinions given on which ally to use, it would need constant updating. I'd mainly want a tutorial that would make a user 'switch role', and peruse the different powers seeing that some powers do different things that are useful for different situations. Fine tuning and optimizing things can come later and would be too much to teach in a single mission. Just the fact that someone who never looked at the power tree or actually switched role before would HAVE to, IMHO would be an improvement. Never hearing 'what's POT?" from the group troll again would be nice at least, or a healer learning that there are HOTs and priority heals...and that there are different uses for them....well that's nice too.

Again, a key part of the tutorial should be that the user HAS to look at the powers and select the right one by it's description...not 'press X now!' like the original block/lunge/blockbreak tutorial on the ship. That taught nothing really.

Y that done non got its own thread?

sorry, about the ally, i meant that, like artifacts, there IS now an ally mission. not meaning that we need one.

if they can make a mission for artifacts, and they can make a mission for allys, surely they can make a mission explaining the post 30 life

Np. I agree thou. In general I think dcuo does one of the worst job of most MMOs in explaining how the game functions with it combat style and roles. Even the leveling system doesn’t really show how the majority of the game is played either. So most players do the tutorial (brainiac ship) mission and barely learn anything then get to the leveling portion of the game followed by learning that what they spent 30 lvls doing goes out the window and now they have to learn how the game actually functions.

Also something that needs to be changed