Increase Fire's Self Heals

You have to be fire to truly understand this .... my fire tank is currently @ 16,200+ health (when buffed) 1384 dom 1345 Restoration....

An ice tank has Reflection that ignores what i estimate to be north of 10k dmg (in T5) and it has a 12 second cooldown and a 6 second duration while using 300 power. If you have the regenerative shielding mod u get roughly 500-1000 health back to a tank w/ a health cap of around 8000 which is between 1/16 health to 1/8 health back.

Stoke Flames w/ my current stats give me 8 HOT ticks of roughly 250 on avg... this adds up to around 2000 health and this move has a 20 second cooldown and a power consumption of 350 base. The 2000 health received from this is about 1/8 my current health (or better yet a soder cola remix)... But i still take incoming dmg


These are Fire and Ice Main source of Dmg Mitigation but ice has all the advantages from the health regeneration to the ignored health in the first place the shorter cooldown the pwr consumption etc. i could go on ... receiving 2000 health overtime at that is hardly significant for a fire tank since we have larger health pools and receive much more dmg faster than that of ice.


so in short i think all the heals should be increased on fire .... not just stoke flames i choose it because its the largest of the non-SC heals. but to get a heal for 2000 (over time) when the ravenger in paradox could swipe once for a BLOCKING fire tank w/ 6400+ defense and hit him for 5000+. So this is hardly a heal but if he hit an ice tank w/ reflection up 0 dmg and a heal from his hand mod ... i know the pvp backlash maybe negative toward this idea but since they can Debuff tanks in the first place doesn't that balance it since u cant use heals while being Debuffed.

Well I'm only in t3 raids so maybe I don't know what im saying but

When I heal I heal using backdraft for around 400-600 non crit. My health is around 13k with buffs. And I also find it unfair with ice tanks. We literally cannot heal fast enough to mitigate all the incoming damage sometimes, and that's what the healer is for. But still, we can die. So I agree, it's pretty darn unfair to us that ice tanks are so powerful.

I was night fire when the game first came out. 2 1/2 years i rocked one name ! So mad at what they did to fire i changed my name. Some people praised game update 23. I pointed out that fire still took alot of steps back. But longs as you have people lile soul burn or dump truck . Fire will never be fixed . We made video's, had a thread with 12,000 views . I got sent millions of invites from people wanting to talk about how bad fire became .

The tanking side has improved alot , from what it once was .

During the pre-game update 23 fire post from the devs , asking people how to improve i shared my beliefs. If they would of done what i said fire would have been fix'ed ,loved and millions happy .. ill find it and post it again ...

Its good to see fire people starting to come out .

Do not get me wrong i like the challenge of Fire tanking but at the same time it requires a bit more from the group.... and since i like to pug here and there it usually require decent healers... where as ice u can have two terrible healers.... its mitigation is higher just don'tblock and pop a fire HOT and do not block and pop reflection .... its not even close who is more durable

Thing is, we don't even need a huge buff. I forget the update but a few months ago my heals were higher with a T4 tank than they are now with more sp and cr 97. If we could get those heals back fire tanks would be just as strong as ice.

For the damn record I made this exact thread before the update even came out, made multiple threads and posts about how to fix fire post update. The tanking side needs some love, the dps side needs some help as well but nothing anyone posts or says is going to make a difference.

Yup, every role has unfortunately one a little bit better power...
DPS and HL
Controller and Mental
Healer and Nature
Tank and Ice...


However, I think in the tank role, the differences between the strongest power (Ice) and the others (Earth, Fire) are the most noticeable.

The tank debuff doesnt really nerf a fire tanks ability to heal. It only removes the hp boost and bonus healing in(with sufficient resto, heals should be decent especially with less hp to work with). Plus, its difficult to keep the debuff on constantly and not run out of power. I haven't tried using the tank debuff in 1v1s because I run the healer debuff, but I can say that fire tanks can take quite a while to take down. Any more self sufficiency would have to come at some price to preserve balance for both pvp and pve.

Fact is, the closer fire gets to healing for as much as a shield protects can lead it to be op due to the additional healing in. Getting close to defense mitigation cap while blocking, plus healing for as much as an ice shield does, essentially turns fire into an ice tank that has more hp and gets +80% healing in. Theres no way that can be considered balanced. At this point, I see fire as just a more advanced level tank power in that it requires skill and teamwork. Making it easier or stronger takes away from that aspect.

Fire is op as of right now, stop trying to buff it even more.

Fire is a great power, I love being fire, and I burn hot and bright everywhere but 2 places.
The mechanics of Nexus and Dox just are not fire friendly, I don't find having to have my own personal healer firmly wedged up my bum to maybe stay alive very fun at all, it doesn't feel very tanky to not be able to survive for more than 3 seconds without outside help.
I know it's a raid and it's a group effort, but as a tank in a group I should be able to carry on long enough without a healer to keep the drive alive when others go down.
I tried them several times and I decided I'll come back a few DLC's down the road for the feats, the loot certainly isn't worth the headache of playing something that is really no fun, at least no fun for me.This is the first content that I have done this with, I usually go balls out on new content like a man possessed, but again the reward/fun vs over the top dead shots/frustration just don't float my boat.
It just feels like this particular content was built like Ice was the only tank in the game,but hey that's cool, have fun freezing up Nexus and Dox my icy brothers.Maybe the next round will be a little hotter.
I don't think fire can really be buffed much without making us OP unstoppable everywhere else, the problem isn't that fire isn't powerful enough, it's those particular raid mechanics are kinda biased.

TLDR : fire is great everywhere, except in Nexus and Dox.

i nvr said they should heal as much as ice tanks shields should but healing a fire tank for 2000 is nothing.... let me tell u to heal ur self if u get hit in animation for 5 k casting the amount it took to cast it wasnt worth it .... and as far as fire's 80% healing in ...its because they have more health hence healing a fire tank for 6000 is the same as healing a ice tank for 3 because of ice reduced health I.E healing 50% of my fire tank health bar is abour 8100 heal ... healing an ice tank for 50% his health bar would be around 4000 ... but a 4000 heal for ice would be nearly 8k for fire .... but if Fires heals are increased to mitigate any boss hits at all they would be worth it rather almost useless but heres the thing *scenario* the warrior hits a fire tank for 7k and he heals himself w/ 3 heals and needs the healers still to heal him for like another 2k ....ice gets hit w/ his shield 0 dmg is done ...


another thing ... is most tanks do not die while blocking when geared. but its the time in the raid where they simply must not block and this is where all powers knell to ice... its easier to buff your def for ice than it is to buff health for fire ... its those times where the healers catch a 1 shot and ur getting hit constantly while healing slowly ... im asking for Fire not to be Over powered but eye level w/ ice ....i wanna get the heals doubled in short ....and BTW when ur debuffed just like the debuff removes ice's shield they remove fire heals here is a thread of ppl confirming what i already know..

https://forums.station.sony.com/dcu...nk-cant-heal-at-all-after-debuff-in-pvp.6702/

Don't Get me Wrong i beat these raids every week on my fire tank w/ relative ease .... Though sometimes i pug it and i do not often get the same results (mostly solo healers) but i get solo healed from my lg mates all the time.... i do not wanna see fire receive the perception that it already has .... as inferior to Ice but rather eye-level with it ...so i ask for a change until fire is a bit more self-sufficient it will be looked as the inferior tank. Most Ice tanks may say that ice isn't OP but they are IMO, trying not to give the perception that they have the easier job, when in actuality its not easier .... ITS A LOT EASIER !!!!

Fire used to be the best DPS because the burst damages but a lot of loadouts i've seen on YT have changed since then. everyone use to run the bigger damagers. like fire burst, fireball barrage(not sure what the sc is called with the fireballs) snuff out all in one loadout for massive AoE damage, but lately is changed a lot

There is no perception that being an Ice tank is easier, it's a fact that everyone already knows.But easier doesn't mean better or more powerful( in PVP I whoop a lot of ice players), just easier to use.Having to really make yourself learn how to use Fire is what makes Fire more rewarding and IMO a superior power, again with the exception of Nexus and Paradox,because they seem tailor made for Ice.
Again I don't see how you could increase Fire's power without making fire truly OPed , especially just to remedy the problems with just 2 raids that IMO again were just poorly constructed when it comes to balance for the powers trying to run them.
Of course Ice guys say they are not OP and don't want to get nerfed, and I think they are right, Ice is fine the way they are.

Well they could get around to fixing Absorb Heat. Absorb Heat was useful when combined with the Channeling mod, provided decent heals, and a stun, but now that it does not give multiple heals it isn't worth it.

As for the rest of the powers, a lot was asked to help Fire Tanks before the updated (Stoke Flames power consumption being reduced or heals stronger to justify its power cost, Consume Objects to be improved [not replaced], etc). The self-heals clearly are not to replace a Healer, but some are so weak or too costly they serve no purpose to a Fire Tank (Wildfire, Overheat, Fiery Weapon). Just seems useless to set a goal of self-healing if your a Fire Tank since it will rarely be enough to relieve a Healer for even an instant.

firstly when u speak of T4's and below u could give a monkey a stick and i could show him how to tank those in the apporpriate gear... so let me be clear.... this is only FOR NEXUS & PARADOX.... and nothing else... also are you saying fire is a better tank than ice in this line? "But easier doesn't mean better or more powerful" i still stand with ice being better than fire... but u say u do not see how you could increase fires power w/o making it "OPed". if you increase the amount of health u recieve from 2.2 health per 1 dom to 4.0 u think the ice tank would come running to fire ? @ 1400 dom a fire tank would recieve 3080 extra health from this dom with the current 2.2 health per 1 dom ratio .... w/ my suggested 4.0 it would go to 5600 thats a difference of 2520 health I.E about 1 extra lex luthor hit (while block of course) thats a buff they could do .... JS but i'd prefer.. the healing one

Well for those that say I don't know much about the powerset because i'm ice, I switched to fire this morning and ran straight into nexus. We had 2 healers because we were testing celestial so we had an electric to back up. I didn't get knocked around nearly as much as I thought I would. Self healing was negligible as expected but the survivability while blocking is insanely good compared to ice. Overall I felt it was easier as fire. Hate stayed on me longer which allowed me to watch for the openings to cast. Had one false start on last boss which we had to wipe because we lost both trolls before I even knew what was happening. Only died twice on our second attempt due to shields not rendering but they got me back up and we recovered for the win. Overall, I felt I had an easier time with it than ice. Also realize that i've never tanked as fire so that really says something.

The 80% heals is not to cover the extra hp. A standing fire tank with 60% armor penetration(all numbers here calculated with 60% armor pen and 6500 base defense) deflects 36% dmg through defense. A standing ice tank deflects 69% dmg. So without blocking a fire tank only takes 33% more dmg than an ice tank. When blocking, fire deflects 78% dmg while ice is capped(rumored) at 80%. So while blocking fire only takes 2% less dmg than an ice tank and still gets 80% more healing in. Obviously, you don't need 80% more healing in when blocking if youre only taking 2% more dmg. Even if we are wrong about the exact armor penetration values, the dmg prevention scales with it. Theres also no need to think of what % of the bar a heal gives you because dmg in is a number not a %. If you take 1k dmg your healer only has to heal 1k dmg. Taking 33% more dmg means the fire tank takes 1.33k but gets healed for way more than that.

As far as shields go, think of shields as temporary health boosts. It may not show up on the damage card but that shield adds more to the dmg you can take the same way more health does. A fire tank with full health and no healer can take 15k dmg before going down. An ice tank with no healer and just reflect can take around 18k before going down. If reflect is on cooldown, the ice tanks survivability without a healer goes way down. Each shield adds 3k to their health. one shield puts them around 10k, 2 at 13k, etc. A good ice tank will never have more than 2 shields available because they'd have been rotating them. The drawback is that ice has to come out of block to apply another shield which means less defense, more dmg taken. So in reality, those shields dont quite add as much hp as you would think.

I will say that I think I may have trouble in paradox due to the ranged attacks some of the bosses throw at me especially when I have to kite. I may end up specing differently for it due to that fact.

Hey! Never EVER underestimate the power of a monkey with a stick!

You do know when the Paradox Ravager and the Paradox Oppressor do their swipe at you, that it's a block breaker so it ignores your defense buff for blocking, right?
Also you know burnout, and fiery weapon heal for more, right?