GU73: Earth

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Mepps, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Unstoppable always had a damage component and it has always been able to clip other stuff even in dps role where its not a tank immunity, plus damage tick's range is quite small making it a melee/point black power. Its one special thing that Earth has, let it be!

    Who is to say that Crystal and Fury have to be the same?
    Are all of Earth and Sorcery's powers and SCs identical ?
    Crystal's extra damage is compensating for some of Sorcery's normal powers and namely Grand Summoning SC being stronger.

    Except that this extra clip was something Brick tanking terribly needed.
    Offering being able to clip in healer role could have been useful as well , not as crucial though.
    • Like x 2
  2. Aggro Well-Known Player

    Sorry to burst your nerf bubble, but unstoppable is a immunity? All immunities are clippable. They just made it a super generator. So just switch it to a different power?

    Both sorcery and earth have the same parser in numbers if you wanna start talking about crystal. Bring some parsing numbers of the 2 top loadouts from both powers before talking.

    That way they don't over nerf or under nerf the two.
    • Like x 3
  3. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    All tank powers only have 1 immunity going forward. Soothing Sands is the only immunity. Burning Determination is no longer group immunity, it's Burnout. I forget which one changed for Ice and no clue about Rage and Atomic.
  4. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    As much as I hate to admit, this should be changed. Fortify Golem and Unstoppable line up so you can always clip with Unstoppable. It really isn't in line with everything else.
  5. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Yeah but Unstoppable is point blank/melee power that is not doing melee level but normal level damage hence why being beneficial flagged. Its easily justified.
  6. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    No, it's not. It doesn't do melee level damage because it is a SC builder and it has a CC effect.
  7. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Again. Its a point blank melee power that requires you to be in the middle or right next to adds if you want to effect more than 1 target. Earth DPS is not over performing in any way and even if its not immunity anymore Unstoppable is useful as it is for tanks. Let it go!
    • Like x 3
  8. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    No, you let it go. Leaving it beneficial to clip other powers while being a SC generator breaks all the rules the Devs set up.
    • Like x 2
  9. Goddesssilver Well-Known Player

    Everything that clips was intentionally made that way by the developers they said it.
    • Like x 2
  10. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    I'm pretty sure it was just an oversight on their part anyway. All the SC generators have a very specific format of SC gen, CC, and PI application (for only 200 cost) and damage too, so I know they didn't mean to give it other abilities beside that.
    • Like x 1
  11. L T Loyal Player

    No. Unstoppable is not an immunity anymore. Also, I'm not looking to get things nerfed. I play Earth on live quite a bit. When I've seen something out of whack, across all the power sets, I've posted about it.
    All immunities have always been like that. It breaks the rules for clipping now. Do you really want Earth to be made special by an exploit?
    I'm not suggesting that they be made exactly the same. I was fine with Crystal doing more damage and Fortify being 300 cost (though that has to be painful for the tank side). But if Fortify Golem is a 200 cost ability then the damage from Crystal ought to line up with all the other 200 cost abilities.

    Earthquake is the strongest supercharge in the game from my testing-- probably at least in part due to the animation time and the fact that you have to combo it. Meanwhile, having an extra Fury out and using offering makes Grand Summoning look a bit stronger than it is all by itself. In a sense, Grand Summoning is difficult to measure in the same way Circuit Breaker and Mass Hysteria are-- because a significant portion of the damage depends on what you do while the supercharge is in effect.
    That's a good point right there. I don't generally use Brick on live, so I haven't done much testing with it. Watcher is useful on live and not overpowered, and Ritualistic Word is a clip. Maybe Brick needs a different ability to power him?
    • Like x 1
  12. Goddesssilver Well-Known Player

    How is brick doing in end game content anyone test yet while tanking?
  13. Black Jaq Devoted Player

  14. SuperPrime New Player

    Actually Crystal and Fury are doing almost the same damage,

    I did some testing with both (same spec for both)

    Cr 201
    Sp 242
    60 points in critical chance/damage
    165 points in precision

    Test 3 sparring target:
    Three-minute test with 10/s parser for more accurate results,

    In this test I only play as a battery for the pets (only used fortify golem and orfering "no weapon attacks from me")


    Parser - Crystal

    Combat breakdown


    Parser - Fury

    Combat breakdown

    Crystal vs Fury "Avg DPS"

    10.0s 1949/s on 3 targets (check second image from Crystal's results)

    10.0s 1978/s on 3 targets (check second image from Fury's results)

    So far so good!

    We can see in the combat breakdown (second image for each pet), that the total damage out from Fury's transmutation is more high than the combination of Crystal's superporwers (epicenter + strinking stones).

    In a three-minute test with 10/s parser for more accurate results:

    Crystal's superpowers combined (epicenter + striking stones) total damage: (epicenter) 183,738 + 68,055 (strinking stones) = 251,793 (check second image from Crystal results);
    Fury's transmutation total damage: 273,971 (check second image from Fury results);

    Comparing these two values, we can see that transmutation is doing 8% more damage in favor of fury "considering only superpowers", talking about the total damage of the pet (pet's weapon attack + superpowers) are balanced now;

    Fury's transmutation total damage is about 8% more than Crystal's superpowers combined;
    "This difference we can see in the Min DPS and Max DPS of the each pet's parser".

    Even crystal having 2 superpowers, in a parser of 10 seconds she gives 3 hits of superpowers (2 epicenter and 1 strinking stones), fury does the same thing (3 transmutation attack) but not in the same order as crystal;

    As the damage of the two pets is almost the same, Now they are in a really good place (really good work).

    Maybe a fix:

    But if it were to correct something about damage, it would perhaps a small decrease on fury's transmutation (but as I said the two pets are balanced in the set "pet's weapon attacks+superpowers").
    You can check the numbers, also test and post the data from DCUO combat log, so we can compare and have more accurate results if necessary.
    • Like x 2
  15. L T Loyal Player

    I get utterly different results. TL;DR here's the DPS and effective DPS of fury and crystal at CR166


    Fury's transmutation does indeed hit harder:

    But Crystal is getting 2 hard attacks per power recharge instead of one, and for me, they add up to higher average damage then Transmutation. Above, you can see the average damage of Transmutation at about 3k, and the average damage of Striking Stones + Epicenter at about 5k.


    • Like x 1
  16. SuperPrime New Player

    I did more tests with 166 cr and I'm still having the same results as I presented previously

    two-minutes with 10/s parser
    1 sparring target

    My test was when the cooldown time is down using fortify golem or offering (the same as before only play as battery for the pets)

    Combat Time Crystal and Fury


    Still having the same results as before.

    Combat Breakdown



    I tested in different ways, melee, range and even reduced the time to 2 minutes to try to get the same results as you, but I could not replicate the same numbers, I still find the same numbers as before in favor of fury about 8% more damage on transmutation vs (epicenter+striking stones) you can see in the image above.

    What did you do exactly on your test?

    I'll try to replicate one more time!
    • Like x 2
  17. Xibo Loyal Player

    The effective DPS represents 5.7% discrepancy between the pets. Seems ok to me.

    But if you still reduce the power cost to 100, reduce the cooldown to 3 seconds and reduce damage accordingly I don't know if it'll reduce the discrepancy because the discrepancy must be max 5% to be balanced. Need more tests to get the exactly difference.
  18. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    • The following abilities now properly hit 8 targets:
      • Gadgets: Asphyxiation Gas, Bunker Buster.
      • Nature: Rampage.
      • Earth: Entomb, Meteor Shower.
    • Earthquake - Smoothed out functionality and rebalanced for comparable throughput with other 100% Supercharges.
    • Crystal - Now spawns with full Power.
    • Fortify Golem - No longer counts towards Power Out on the scorecard.
    I wasn't aware of any issues with Entomb and MS. I'm not sure I agree with the change on Earthquake.
    • Like x 2
  19. Xibo Loyal Player

    As i've mentioned before the 100 power cost does more damage than the 300 power cost.

    Stone vs Striking Stones

    Stone - 60s - 1853/s
    Striking Stones - 60s - 724/s

    So, Crystal is fine as it is as a 200 power cost.
  20. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    It will be a bit better since you can do everything with Earthen Grip now but it still takes 2 LO spots compared to Jackhammer.
    Ive always felt that Jackhammer was the more reliable tanking option cause it takes just 1 spot and it stuns enemies around you.
    Imo, Brick should have at least 1 CC effect to work in alert in raids.

    In duos and solos both Brick and Crystal's CC effects make huge difference.

    I think we should at least get the option to respawn Totem each 12 secs even if we cant stack them kinda like Nature can respawn Swarm. Its just not a reliable superpower with 30 sec cooldown and 0% flexibility.
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