Here's some base numbers I pulled from the test server. I tried just grabbing the highest high and lowest low I saw. I sometimes saw numbers come up with erratic jumps outside my normal range. That might be the sparring target resetting on me. In those cases I tried to capture a few variations on my high or low. I don't fully trust these numbers but it does start the conversation. Voracious 50% No-DoT (1984 Might) 351 (28) 261 (20) Serpent 35% (1984 Might) 318 (28) 229 (20) Voracious 50% With-DoT (1984 Might) 527 (42) 383 (31) 326 (26) 300 (24) 283 (22) Briar 50% (1984 Might) - was (15-21) 303 (24) 283 (22) 184 (14) 166 (13) Harvest 45% (1984 Might) - was (22-25) 477 (39) 317 (26) 300 (24) 272 (22)
Almost forgot about this but is swarm shield still using 125% resto in healer role but only 60% resto in dps role? If so this really needs to change. Just make it 125% in either role or 100% resto / 100% dom in dps role. Same for the other healer shields.
As I said in the Sorcery thread, Nature also needs better graphics. Not so much Flora, that has a lot of unique looking moves, but Fauna has three movies that are just basic animations. As I said before, I think you guys are moving in the right direction of having Fauna actually controlling animals, as Flora controls plants. So more animal attacks and less (none) form changing. Save form changing for a future Shapeshifting power. Thank you.
Ok sore I reviewed what you have said and it checks out. although the tooltip says 60% the power description still says 50% so the Enduring damage tac mod does not count bloom. witch is the only point to using bloom in t5 content unless your a healer.[60% for 20 seconds, with out being overwritten] also bloom can be used to clip yes. but before the revamp you could jump clip bloom with out a power cost. in fact you could stand in one spot jump cancel bloom in the WT just to make the pretty roots effect, and just do that all day with out power cost. Now when you jump cancel Sore, you pay the power cost of both *vinelash and bloom. so just try this, jump cancel bloom *with any power, then do the same with Blossom. you'll see that you loose less power
I usually refer to jump clipping as having some effect (if not all) and a power cost. I refer to jump canceling as no effect and no power cost. Bloom used to jump cancel. Now it jump clips (with minimal effect). That statement in the end was requesting it be altered to give is a window of 0.5s to execute a jump cancel. After that window, we are talking jump clip. I could have been clearer about that.
BTW, the first room of the T1 joker challenge is good for testing heals , NPCs heals, splits, etc. Leave and come back as often as you need. Q up in front of a training dummy to get power back when you leave. Or die in the instance for power.
Really just for jump canceling? I'm sorry but I am going to have to strongly disagree with you on this. Now they made Harvest refresh all the DoTs on the same target and you still think you need that? I never saw the need for that jump cancel tactic with it in the first place and it's even less now they've changed Harvest, I'd rather have them make Bloom useful for healing.
I'm asking for the best of both. Bloom still lasts 3.5s with 9 fast little ticks and 1 big tick. I'm not saying to get rid of the little ticks. I'm saying delay their start for the first 0.5 seconds and make that your jump cancel window. After that, let it still do 9 fast little ticks and one big tick over the next 3.0 seconds. It just means those 9 little ticks have a minor delay before starting and then tick faster once they do start. In terms of having a jump cancel at all...the players used to using it find it very fun to execute. I think the fact that you could originally use it for jump canceling is not by design. However, I think that having techniques like jump canceling available rewards advanced gameplay with little gems of skill tactics. It gives players something to discover and master. The benefit isn't massive considering the 4.5s cooldown. Currently on live, Nature DPS needs Phase Dodge to be top tier and that has a much shorter cooldown than 4.5s. Bloom used this way is just an alternative for Phase Dodge that is more power efficient but comes at a tradeoff of not being able to be used as often. Regarding the need of it compared to Harvest. I do think Harvest refreshing DoTs on the main target is a big boost. I don't think it's as big of a boost as Voracious Plants being added to our tool bag. With DoTs running, Grenade=>Harvest=>PhaseDodge=>Grenade=>VoraciousPlants will make a much bigger difference than refreshing Harvest or Bloom jump canceling. That said, I'm willing to let Nature launch with these boons and have it nerfed later if needed based on what we see in the field. Specifically if we were to see a Nerf, I'd give up Harvest refreshing before I'd give up VP or Bloom jump canceling. That's because CP and Bloom jump canceling require tactical execution. Harvest refreshing is just easy-mode. I always anticipated I'd need to re-stack because that requires skill.
I do think having Harvest refresh dots on a single target is too much. Not only is it really strong, it also makes the class boring to play since you'd just be rotating voracious plants and harvest 99% of the time.
Assuming that they don't keep the Refresh harvest, nature dps still needs the Bloom cancel to fall back to. Jump canceling was used by advanced dps to speed up the ranged dots powers. nature struggled to keep up with the other revamps, and the bloom cancel made it possible. yes bloom was a powerful heal but with out its speed, nature was slow..... we just ask for a little security in the jump cancel incase the Harvest power gets changed "like how bloom was recently changed"
On a single target perhaps, big groups is a different story. And that's still doing weapon combos and two different powers over and over which is a lot more than doing one power over and over which is what I see most celestial damagers do all the time. Didn't you play celestial for quite a while too? I'm sure you know.
So you say nature needs that now to be able to keep up with the other powersets? Please do tell me, what exactly do you do in the 10 seconds between each time you need to apply the DoTs apart from weapon attacks when range attacking a single target?
in steps. 1. apply dots as quickly as possible using bloom cancel. 2. spread dots (bloom cancel - harvest) [ but since you say single target] skip to step 3 3.keep applying briars/ vine lashes (depending on boss sneak in a savage G) I'm not going to sit there and wait for the spores to wear off before I reapply the dots that's just silly. mostly because briar gets that initial damage and the dots. im might based not precision so using powers is better than standing and only using weapon attacks, I use briars after briars after vines to make sure they don't fade off [all before update] keep in mind you specified a single target this is not the strategy for multiples
Single target burn on a boss today (using Rifle) Stacking... Grenade=>Swarm=>PhaseDodge=>Grenade=>VineLash->Grenade=>Briar=>PhaseDodge=>Grenade=>Briar While they tick... (your question) Version 1: Grenade=>Harvest=>PhaseDodge=>Grenade=>ImpalingThorns=>JumpCancel=>(repeat) Version 2: Grenade=>Harvest=>PhaseDodge=>Grenade=>ImpalingThorns->(repeat) Version 3: Grenade=>Harvest=>PhaseDodge=>Grenade=>Briar->(repeat) Version 4: Grenade=>Harvest=>PhaseDodge=>Grenade=>VoraciousPlants->(repeat) Version 5: Grenade=>Harvest=>Bloom=>JumpCancel=>Grenade=>VoraciousPlants->(repeat) That's going to be close to the best burn you can get. The key there is that you use PhaseDodge to double up your damage attacks as much as possible. You can slow it down by using Solar Flare from Hand Blasters or using Focused Blast from 1-Handed. With that you're just tapping range after the PhaseDodge. However, not everyone is Superspeed so you can replace (PhaseDodge=>Grenade) with (Bloom=>JumpCancel). You won't be able to use it as often as PhaseDodge but you will at least cut down some of that timing. That's also nice because PhaseDodge is too power hungry for duos and challenges. That's why Bloom cancelling isn't OP, because you can use PhaseDodge and be stronger than Bloom cancelling. Really, Version 4 up there is what it will be after GU32. The thing I worry about is that Version 4 is VERY strong. I think OP strong. The thing that brings it back in line is that you occasionally need to go back and restack DoTs. That's why I think Harvest refreshing DoTs on a single-target is more OP than anything we've ever seen before. It'll let us ride out Version 4 indefinitely. The only thing you'll need to reset is Swarm.
im normally acro, ill go on test see what I can do with PhaseD edit: tested it yea its.....better than bloom but I don't like doing what everyone else is doing, that doesn't make the game fun. ill stick with acrobatics
To devs I like new nature dps in test server but i think something should be done to healer role. I know nature is the best healer in game though, the problem is nature heal is somewhat boring compared to other heal powersets. Savage, Meta, Blossom and Swarmshield can rule all contents in this game easily. Here are my Suggestions 1. Remove pheromones of Metabolism Pheromones are main tools for nature but it is too easy to get them. With Savage and Meta, I can get 2 stacks of pheromones which are too powerful, however they can be earned within 1 second. It is not balanced considering the trade off between risk and return. For example, Circle of Protection is great HoT move but players should be there to get heals. EG in elec is nice but it has long cool down and Elec player should know right location to maximize it. Admonish cBlight is Combo move so it requires little practice. All healing powersets but nature has its own pros and cons. Removing Pheromones of Meta can make nature more challenging to match with other heal powers. Furthermore other viable options can be added to nature's loadout like Harvest or Bloom for pheromones and burst. Variety and challnge are always good things to enjoy, aren't they? 2. Roar, Savage and Harvest should deal damage in healer role Why is nature only powerset can't damage with their healing moves? Now sorcery got revamp there are some options to damage with heals. Elec has Arc Lightning and Celestial can be a combat healer. It is a pleasure to see variety of digit colors in screen. I really enjoy Gorilla as a heal supercharge cuz it can do both heal and damage. Is there a specific reason why this cannot be allowed in healer role? It won't cause any balance problem but fun. At last, it would be more enjoying if you reduce animation time of roar(reducing damage and heal amount is ok). I think it would be good tank heal with some damage if you pay some attention to it. Sorry for my poor English. It's not my first language lol
On Live, I'm acrobatics too. It's just too much fun. That's why I want Bloom. I don't want to have to switch to Superspeed. I'm willing to DPS but I like healing more. For that reason, I'm not willing to change movement mode just to do more damage. Plus, again, Bloom is better for duos and challenges. I'm going to be posting a rotation video here soon once Twitch gets my highlight sent over to YouTube. Here's some feedback. Voracious Plants will let you cast your next ability too soon. I don't mind it being quick, but that's a little too quick. EDIT: VIDEO
My notes, long post. Things are constantly changing so some of this stuff might be outdated: Serpent's Call: 20-28 damage on the first hit, followed by 4 ticks of 1-3 damage each. Hits 4 targets max, splits after 2. The DoT affects 4 targets at a time in the area of effect sort of like Quantum powers. Costs 250 power. Good for leveling, I guess. Voracious Plants: 20-28 damage on the first hit, followed by 2 ticks of 1-3 damage each. Or with the Poison Spore PI, 30-42 damage on the first hit (same as Harvest), followed by 2 ticks of 1-3 damage each. Hits 4 targets max, splits after 2. Costs 260 power. Everyone already knows this is really, really good. Hope to see ranged AoE moves in other powerset revamps as well. Briar: Now does 13-24 damage on the first hit (old 14-25). Followed by nine ticks of 6-9 damage (old 7-10). Very minor change and the animation is still so long it's just always going to get clipped. Rampage: Now does 20-28 damage on its AoE (old 12-15), and heals 11 ticks of 14-18 health (old 12-15). The AoE hit doesn't split damage so it's better than it seems, but still only a slight buff. Chaotic Growth: Now does two ticks of 89-110 damage, for a total of 178-220 [199] damage (old one tick of 90-110, one tick of 41-51, followed by one tick of 82-92 for a total of 213-253 [233] damage). Not sure why patch notes said damage was increased, but the new damage is fine for an AoE 50% SC. It's actually pretty good now, compared with other 50% SCs with quick damage. Carnivorous Plants: Now also hits a single target for 80-96 damage and heals you for one tick of 68-83 health. For some reason these changes weren't mentioned in the patch notes. The current Carnivorous Plants is one of the most useless powers you could have and sadly, these changes don't make it any more useful :/ Bloom: Now heals for 9 ticks of 2-5 health with one large tick of 136-166 health near the end, for a total of 154-211 [182.5] health in damage role. In healer role, there's an additional 42 ticks of 1-3 health pheromones. The first pheromone tick starts 1 second after cast so that there are 3 pheromone ticks before the heal ends. And then the regular 39 ticks of 1-3 health pheromones. So in healer role, the total heal is 196-337 [266.5]. Costs the same power and still does not split or seem to have a target cap. The old Bloom (that already got buffed a while ago) healed for 136-166 with 39 pheromone ticks of 1-3 health each (total 175-283 [229]). So this is pretty much a sped up version of the old Bloom with an even burstier heal now. I timed the new Bloom at 2.5 sec to reach the big heal and the old Bloom 3.2 seconds. The new Bloom may be more rewarding but it kinda sucks that if you get interrupted now before the big tick, you've lost power and only gotten back a mediocre heal. Losing the jump-cancel was also disappointing and using this to clip with now will be a terrible idea since it costs 350 power. If you can get away with using this in large group PvP arenas, it's going to be amazing with the added heal, but I'm still not sure about using this for raids even with the reduced time.
Primal Wolf: Now gets the Recovery buff for a melee weapon (additional 15% weapon crit damage and 20% control resistance), which wasn't mentioned in the patch notes. I'll compare each move to similar weapon moves. All melee and ranged hold combos except the lunge and melee 2-hold damage in decent-sized AoEs and hit 8 targets max, splitting after 2. Wolf Claw (melee tap): No change from the old Wolf, abysmal damage. Two taps combined does the equivalent of a DW melee tap. Takes 0.5 sec and alternates between 2 damages. Air Slash (ranged tap): Also low for a ranged tap, but it's alright. In the same company as the MA/HB ranged taps which are at the bottom. But there's nothing to complain about considering how good the ranged holds are. Takes 0.45 sec and alternates between two damages. Wolf Rush (melee hold): Single target, below average DPS compared with other lunges. Ferocious Backfist (melee 2 hold): Single target. Below average DPS unclipped. There aren't many other similar moves - it's very close to Staff's 2-hold Martial Flowers which is pretty bad, and worse than Brawl's Ground Pound. Feral Stomp (1 tap hold): Below average DPS unclipped. Unique as a 1-tap AoE move, but not quite as good as HB's Fist Slam when clipped. Hop Claw (2 tap hold): Average DPS unclipped. When clipped, it's not as good as similar melee AoE moves like Spin Chop and Big Scoop. But it's not too bad either, and very close to Brawl's 2 tap Hammer Fist. Double Slash (3 tap hold): Average DPS unclipped. Really bad clipped - worse than pretty much every similar move - 1H's Flurry, DW's 3-tap Stunning Swipe, Brawl's Backfist, and Staff's 1-hold Downward Smash. Primal Uppercut (4 tap hold): Crazy good DPS unclipped. One of the best AoE moves unclipped actually, being second only to Home Run. Does two hits of damage, with the first one being slightly higher than the second. Together the damage is quite high, more than a Smoke Bomb but slightly less than the Staff Downward Smash's 2 hits. I timed the clip to get both hits at ~2.5 sec, with the cast bar taking up half a second. So it's good that it's not blatantly broken and there's a kind of additional skill involved to clip the move at max potential. Clipped, the move is pretty average in DPS, not being better than similar moves like Downward Smash or Brawl's 3-tap Launching Uppercut, but you can say the larger cone AoE makes up for it. When clipped, it's also very similar in damage/time to the 4-hold Slam and Feral Combos of the old Wolf so it's hard to call it OP. Primal Burst (ranged hold): Below average DPS unclipped. The damage is nowhere near Rifle's Grenade or MA's Heavy Shuriken and more close to a Brawl's ranged tap. But it's AoE, so it's still pretty good when clipped. Lupine Darts (ranged 2 hold): Great DPS unclipped. High damage and unique as one of the few 100% AoE ranged combos. Unclipped, it's as good as Solar Flame and Meteor Blast when fully charged. Clipped, it's faster than the HB combos with higher value damage/time, so it matches with short animation powers better. And now that Wolf can use Phase Dodge, expect Lupine Darts/PD clipping to directly compete with HB/Grenade combos for T5 raid rotations. So it'll be good for when Grenade is too power hungry to use or when Solar Flame can't use all the power coming in fast enough. Pair it with a fast clip like Voracious Plants and it could even be as good as the best melee combos because the entire combo is AoE. Being stuck in a 40% modifier is no problem and the increased crit attack damage slightly mitigates the loss of not spreading your poisons with a 50% modifier. Overall, great changes to Primal Wolf. It's now a legitimate weapon in both PvE and PvP. It kind of sucks for PvP that the only single target combos are the so-so melee holds, but at least it has nice burst, especially with the boosted crit weapon damage. And it gets a second control resistance buff, if that helps any. The only thing I see that needs fixing is the terrible damage of the melee taps. Raise the damage of those and adjust Primal Uppercut's damage accordingly if it becomes too good.
What I think is silly is reapplying the DoTs well before they run out, that's just a waste of power. Instead you can start with putting a DoT on, then a weapon combo clipped with the second DoT, another combo clipped with the another DoT or Harvest or something and then start it back over. If you do it like that you have the DoTs going non stop and you've added a lot of damage from weapon combos to your rotation without any loss of time.
