GU 73: Controller power imbalances

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Mighty, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Mighty Committed Player

    I hate to bring this up this late in the revamp, but hopefully we can get some last-minute changes on this issue to help level the playing field across the controller sets.

    The issue is, the power cost of the primary debuff (defense). I brought up this subject in the 1.7 light thread last week, and reposted in the GU73 version. Some trolls can spam 100-cost defense debuffs with little sweat, but not all controller sets have a 100-cost defense debuff.

    To illustrate how this plays out, I tested two sets.

    Controller 1: Gadgets, which carries a 100-cost defense debuff in gauss grenade (mental can do the same with psy shock).

    By himself, Controller 1, specced 201 CR with a mix of vit/power can throw instant power every time defib is off cooldown, and clip in a defense debuff every time it's off cooldown and maintain that without soda, supply drop or trinket, for 1 minute 45 seconds.

    Controller 2: Munitions, can only access a 200-cost defense debuff.
    By herself, Controller 2, same spec as Controller 1, can throw instant power off cooldown and keep the defense debuff up for a mere 50 seconds. Because of the difference in defense debuff alone, Controller 1 can essentially last twice as long before reaching for a soder.

    Of the controller sets, gadgets and mental need no changes. Working with some troll buddies, though, we had some suggestions for munitions and light. We're at a loss for quantum, because we're concerned about hurting its DPS capabilities by attaching debuffs to 100-cost powers (nerfing their damage).

    Here are our suggestions -

    For muni:
    Move SC generator and defense debuff to laser net launcher
    Add heal debuff to chain grenade launcher
    Remove the SC generator from shrapnel grenade launcher
    Remove the defense debuff from five-barrel minion
    Remove the heal debuff from rocket launcher

    For light:
    Add a defense debuff to spike quake and reduce cost to 100, change it to stun four targets instead of two
    remove the defense debuff from whipthrash
    Grant construct impact the ability to pop encasements (it combos out of entrap, which is an encasement)

    For quantum:
    Open to suggestions that don't negatively impact the DPS side.

    Thanks for your consideration.
    • Like x 15
  2. Jafin 10000 Post Club

    For Quantum I'd suggest switching the defence debuff from Time Shift over to Tachyon Blast. It's a 100 power cost spammer and leverages the Destabilised power interaction, which is the same one that Time Shift leverages. That way there shouldn't need to be any changes made to how much damage either of the abilities do.
    • Like x 7
  3. Mighty Committed Player

    100% support this.
  4. Light Bender92 Well-Known Player

    As a hard-light player who dual roles I'm glad you brought this up because I didn't even notice. I completely agree with your suggestions, now will the devs listen is another thing. Who knows, but I seriously doubt it. Just make sure to bring it up again when the next update is in the works, they may do a hotfix for it.
    • Like x 3
  5. Derio 15000 Post Club

    All controller debuffs should be 100 power cost, regardless of which powerset you choose for balance sake. This is a serious imbalance issue that needs to be hotfixed as soon as possible after the revamp launches.
    • Like x 3
  6. spack2k Steadfast Player

    Hardlight finisher debuffs defence at the same time ... another balance issue for pvp :p
    • Like x 2
  7. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Just playing devil's advocate here, but wouldn't it promote more of that "teamwork" business you lot keep banging on about if raid groups have to say "ok, you debuff, mr. gadgets troll and you dump power mr. munitions troll"?
  8. spack2k Steadfast Player

    well every troll will have to dump power if we will be playing with 2 troll, since last update ppl say solo troll is doable however if 2 troll u could say troll 1 debuffs def while troll 2 debuffs damage etc
  9. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    I'm really sorry but I don't quite follow what you're saying? :-S
  10. Mighty Committed Player

    That would be fine, if the power sets were equal. But under that scenario you would always choose at least one mental/gadgets controller, essentially making them prerequisites, whereas muni, quantum and light controllers would always be sufficient as secondary controllers, but never necessary. If the goal of the revamp is to make things generally balanced and equal, this is a pretty easy thing to fix.
    • Like x 1
  11. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Ok good point. I appreciate your response, you're probably right.
  12. Jafin 10000 Post Club

    I have to echo what Light Bender2 said above. Until this post I hadn't even noticed that there was this imbalance between power sets, so it's 100% something I'd like to see standardized. There should be 1 low cost option for each power set, perhaps one that doesn't even CC, and then a higher cost one that does CC. That way people can choose which path they want to go.
  13. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    BTW is there more diversity between troll powers now? Other than light and gadgets they're all pretty much identical on live.
  14. Fies Committed Player

    Could this have sth to do with the TC- mods? As far as I remember theres a "power-return" mod for whiptrash but none for gauss (for example). Is the mod's power return affected by vit? I dont know... just a thought.
  15. spack2k Steadfast Player

    no u get 3% power back from the power cost and how much the power cost for ur ability is depends on ur CR... the higher cr the higher the power cost.
  16. Fies Committed Player

    Thx for clarifying. Mental PShock should have a 3% mod also anyways.
  17. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Actually no. It will promote role/power exclusion. Dont bring that HL troll, get a gadgets troll, their debuffs cost less power and they can solo troll.

    Or dont bring that celestial or nature healer, bring a sorcery or electric healer, they have less power costs.

    Changes like this only promote exclusion, it has happened in the past and if not corrected it will happen again.
    • Like x 3
  18. Taerie Active Player

    in addition to Derio's statement which at the very least, has happened historically

    I'm a bit confused as to why the SCG's for trolls didn't all have the same debuff (IF any at all) as gadgets has the preferable debuff for general use (defense - and the only ctrl'er with a defense debuff on their SCG). Mental and Quantums is heal which is the rarest ever used, HL and Muni is damage debuff. This is generally how preferential power cycling begins. With the SCG basically taking the slot of what was the POT initiator, having a debuff on the SCG only saves a slot in retrospect, if it's got a debuff that you generally would have always carried anyway. Otherwise, for GP use, Gadgets has an extra freed power slot versus the others in general.

    ** did the above off of memory from test - if somethings inaccurate please correct
    *** as long as there's valid logic to it i have no issue with differences - as long as they're functional differences - for instance, i dont play gadgets, and it doesn't concern me if gadgets has an edge in some areas as long as other's have their benefits as well - i'm under the impression at least with the information that I have that part of that inbalance lies with the SCG debuff type(s) and their debuff equivalents power costs in other powersets
    • Like x 1
  19. silikyan Well-Known Player

  20. SparkmanX Committed Player