Fire Tank Improvement

ok a blocking ice tank doesn't need a shield to survive a warrior ball as long as it's defense is buffed and its blocking it'll survive... also the 80% increased healing are there only because of fire's higher health for example: if a fire tank with 16k health gets hit for 8k and a ice tank with 8400 health is hit for 4.2k 8400=100% health for ice 16k=100% both of them were hit for 50% so a healer uses nearly the exact same amount of healing to heal them both to full... it's not a real advantage it doesn't take any extra or less healing...

BTW an "oops" moment doesn't exist for fire tanks .... you just die ... I doubt any the buffs in fire would render MUCH more people to become fire...also you did ignore my other facts Fire uses more power, has longer cool downs, heals do not equate the amount of dmg defleted by ice's shields and the community is flooded to ice and this is the same community that takes advantage of any glitch bug or anything to get and advantage that doesn't require skill and confuse glitching cheesing etc. as skill think about it ...

the things i listed are facts not the opinions of the community

if you can find a false statement in there let me know you can continue with your opinions yets the facts still remain

I'm not going to be in a discussion with your made up numbers. A blocking fire tank is very close to the 80% cap, a blocking earth tank is at that 80% cap, ice is well beyond that. However with the cap it can only prevent so much. It has to use shields to lower those numbers while earth has absorption to drop that number by 50% and fire has a huge health pool, increased healing and self heals.

And as for "oops" moments there are just few, a fire tank can get away with a few mistakes just like an earth tank can. As for longer cool downs and uses more power, that subject to the loadout and the player. I rarely used power when I was fire. Self heals aren't suppose to make a fire tank do able with out a healer, it just mean to close the gap with the healing from the healer. With 190% of the heal a from a healer a fire tank can get close to the damage they just took, self healing closes that gap.

The problem isn't that fire tank's heals happen after damage is taken, the real problem is the sheer amount of people who think healing is fire main source of mitigation. Healing is an added benefit to make it slightly easier for healers. People always talk about how OP ice is but unless that ice tank is using a four shield load out they are not nearly as effective, nor efficient. Ice tanks are susceptible to huge amounts of spike damage. Are there and moves in fire load outs that must be there in order to tank? No, because like I said all you need is throwing knives and you can easily tank nexus and wave. Even earth has a requirement for at least one move.

As I've said the tank powers are proven to be balanced, both on paper and in game. These are the real facts, not your opinion.

I agree with what you have said.

My only issue with fire is when you are running one healer in Paradox. If that healer goes down, you need to kite, block, dodge, roll to survive long enough for them to be revived. This can can range from easy to impossible at times (depending on what you have on you for agro).

I don;t know if there is anything that should be done regarding this, but it is the only issue I experience fire tanking.


Oh, one other annoyance: Popping burning determination to revive someone and getting knocked back by the tyrant's laser... either make us immune or change the description. Also popping burning determination or stoke flames as the ravager is swinging at me... why are the next three hits i take in there not heals? LOL Shouldnt I be at a full health bar after that? (If those powers actually worked as described nobody would ever ask for an ice tank)

Again:

facts:
Fire uses more power, has longer cool downs, and heals do not deflect the damage ignored by ice's shields...and the community is flooded by ice tanks.


Opinions:
a fire tank can get away with a few mistakes
your made up numbers.
People always talk about how OP ice is but unless that ice tank is using a four shield load out they are not nearly as effective, nor efficient. Ice tanks are susceptible to huge amounts of spike damage.


BTW my number are accurate weather you choose to acknowledge it or not .... healing a fire tank with half its health requires nearly the same amount of healing it would take to heal an ice tank to full from half a heal for 4k to an ice tank or anyone else would be 7600 to a fire tank hence a fire tank w/ 50% health and an ice tank w/ 50% health would tank the same effort from a healer to fill up so it was no real advantage ... fire tanks are more susceptible to spike dmg because 100% of time in a fight they tank dmg higher than both ice and earth ... in a perfect world with proper shield rotation ice tanks can survive w/minimal healing ... since reflect has a 12 sec cooldown and a 6 second duration and it is the most insane move DC has blessed tanks with. In a perfect world 50% of the fight your invincible .... i honestly don't see how can you argue that.... Ice has proven to be the best not because of any thing more than its self-sustainability ... fire's heals should be good enough to keep it a float given how much ice can withstand w'o healers is ridiculous ... fire should very well be able to the same naturally because thats what balanced is to me ... the powers should be able to with stand the same amounts of dmg just in a different manner .... if i ice tank the last boss nexus w/o a healer you can survive a long time maybe over 30 seconds unless you know your really good ... but fire no mattter how gifted you are you will nvr last near as long and there lies the power balance in favor of ice and its so noticeable fire's reliancy on healers is an annoyance not an advantage but oh well ... you may say fire is balanced on paper ... but it doesn't pass the eye test and that is the most important to me.. The simplistic design the mitigation tables that only take into account a blocking fire tank ... how about you look at it from all the powers buffed but w/o blocking you will see the flaw with most the calculations is that the play to the advantage of fire to see it seem to be near balanced ... its true in a top notch group fire will thrive given all the components are in order but once S*** hits the fan it can compete with ice. i look forward to reading your rebuttal BTW

Remember the good old days when this was our self-heal formula:

https://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/fires-new-self-heals.3880/

It is not a fact that fire uses more power. Stop making this up. Any tank can spam power or use it wisely. It's your choice to spam, and if you didn't spam maybe you would be stuck without a power to cast because of the cool downs, with every other tank power has. Most tank powers are from 12-20 second cool down for ice, fire, and earth.

What is a fact and you are refusing to see it is that ice tanks are susceptible to spike damage. Ever seen an ice tank get hit with out a shield from a big attack, like the ravager's third swipe. 5k damage with no shield and unless your using phase dodge, and can clip a shield in between the second and third swipe your just going to take it. Oh hey, didn't you even make a thread saying the ways to heal different tanks and said ice took more spike damage, while fire and earth took steady damage. Yea you did, so lets not ignore facts just because you want to argue.

The other fact is you made up numbers you said an attack would hit the fire tank for 7k of his 20k health, while and ice tank would take 4.2k of his 8.4k health. So other than the fact that a FULLY geared many skill point ice tank can get 8.4k health, while a NON FULLY geared fire tank can get over 18k. A fully geared fire tank can get well over 20k. Besides that bit of bias, an attack isn't going to hit the ice tank for that much when it hits the fire tank for that much. The third swipe from the ravager hit's fire tanks for 7k, and as I said it hit ice tanks for 5k. So lets actually do the math here. That attack took 59.5% of the ice tanks health, while it took 35% of the fire tanks health. That is why your numbers are made up. You gave two numbers that would give a perfect 50% health for both tank roles.

Spike damage is also defined as a huge random "spike" in damage. Meaning when the shields go down.

Maybe you should learn about mitigation cap before saying ice is op. Over 5k of ice's defense, when buffed, is useless.

THE TANK POWERS ARE BALANCED!

quote me on this because i look though the thread and so nothing to suggest that this was mention .. i was looking to find the context of which i used it but i saw nothing to support this acquisition

The third swipe of the ravenger is optional as you can role out of it... or use a shield in between it because of the brief pause in doing the swipe. As far as spike damage fire always takes more dmg than ice so how is mathematically possible for ice tanks to use spike dmg all the time as a disadvantage ...
i know the mitigation cap even with that ice's shields allow for them to continuously maintain cushioning attacks from enemies
and seeing as how close ice is naturally to the cap w/o blocking it doesn't gain much mitigation through blocking yet w/o blocking it doesn't take as much more dmg ...


http://www.thedcuobook.com/characters-fire
http://dcuniverseonline.wikia.com/wiki/Ice

this will show you that burining determing stoke flame, burnout and backdraft all use more power than inesacable storm bitterwinds reflection and shatter restraints and if you get rid of the two pulls all fire moves have 20second cooldowns while ice's all have 12 seconds ...

in closing weather i choose to spam or not shouldn't be a hindrance i am not denying nor confirming that i do so yet when ever a healer is down i do find myself clipping a lot of heals to stay afloat... the situation dictates why u use certain powers you just cant say " you shouldn't just spam powers" because times may call that you need to ... but the penalty in doing so in much more sever than doing so with ice because of the drastic cooldown times ....and high power cost and given the increased power consumption i can only use 4 moves on a 1900 power bar ... TY have a nice day sir

P.S i am leaving home i'm sure there are a lot of grammatical errors bare with me had no time to proof read

When this was done T4 was the high tier ....with T5 bosses hit harder relative to the health cap.... but hey far as PVP tanks are suppose to be hard to kill thats there advantage .. but this was b4 the debuffs they should bring back the old healing equation IMO i mean at least then my fire tank w/1440+ dom now will get about 40% (if i had to guess) more heals

Well as for pvp Kristyana was right, I don't remember dying much while fire's heals were buffed. Oh to be immortal again...

For the record, I am two tank pieces shy of full 88cr, 173 skill points (with every Dom/Health innate), Dom/Health exp on every piece of gear, and even after popping an all-natural soda (which grants the largest boost to fire's buffed health than any other consumable) I am only at 18500 health.

Only after popping a trinket with all of hte above can I be over 20k, and by being over... I mean 20,168.

The difference between fire and ice is this... Ice isn't married to the block button and healers as fire is.

A fire tank has more effective health when blocking that an ice tank does with a normal shield. This is why they can take constant damage. As for "Rolling away" from the third swipe. That's not possible on the ps3, it might be on PC and the ps4. But on ps3 you can roll away, avoid the animations, be 10 feet from it, and BAM! Damage lag.

A few powers might be more but honestly decent to good tank shouldn't have any issue with power. Pot is enough to keep a tank full. And honestly you should never spam, it's better to stay in block and let your healer do their thing, than come out of block and take much more damage and try to self heal. I can always spot bad tanks or tanks who come from ice, when a fire or earth tank gets low, stay in block. Can't tell you how many earth and fire tanks I see come out of block to do something and die.

The pvp debuff don't even effect fire tanks. It only removes shields.

No, but we are certainly Reflections slave lol

give fire a solo pull and i'd be happy

lol this is funny to me the debuff will debuff your health and stop you from healing and drops a bit of your toughness .... really ?

I'm not talking about when the healers debuff, which has always been in the game. I'm talking about the movement debuffs that only remove shields. I was mentioning that because you said, "this was before the debuffs..." which is referring to the movement debuffs that only remove tank, healer, or controller shields.

Maybe instead of trying to disprove everything I say, you should take some time to learn the game.

Alot of people don't agree, the fact remains it's harder to tank with fire but its the same with all roles, it's harder to solo para with elec than it is with nature for example and if your not super speed you could argue its harder for gadgets to troll without a power supercharge and the same for dps, some powers need to work alot harder to see the same numbers but I do think Ice has an infinitely easier time of things than fire especially when new raids come out so maybe theres a solution rather than buffing fire or nerfing ice... do what has been done for prec focused and might focused dps' PVE gear and give tanks 2 different sets of gear more focused on the main stat of whatever power they are. Maybe just leave the tank gear as it is now and just introduce a set for fire tanks with an decent enough health & resto increase.

That's not needed. The three tank powers are already balanced.

This doesn't change much. The 5k hit on the ice tank still takes 59.5% of his health and the fire tank goes from losing 35% to 38%. 7000/18000. Still much, much better. With those same stats of 8.4k health the earth tank would take around 2500 because of 50% absorption, would only take 29.7% of his health. Ice, fire, and earth can all cast a shield to reduce the same amount of damage, minus reflect. Which unless clipped would break and still take damage from his health from the third swipe.

Didn't say they werent nor do I think my suggestion is needed but either were the 2 sets of PVE gear for the 2 types of dps but they put that in so why not for tanks who are also using different stats... and I have read the whole thread as my 1st 5 words kind of hinted at plus the clear point of my thread was that some powers and harder to use than others not to say they are any less effective or inbalanced, just harder and was just trying to suggest a solution people could agree on. Your inherant need to comment on every subject or post and be right was really what wasnt needed.