Elite+

And when those styles, titles and base items are the most desirable items in the game you promise not to come back and rage even harder that all the "cool stuff" is locked behind elite and elite+?

You shouldn't be able to pug the hardest content in any MMO if you try pugging Extreme Raids on FFXIV, Mythic Raids on Wow Trials on Eso any successful mmo and its a fail they not intended for that. Its what I pointed to earlier players want to play a single player game on Dc when a mmo isn't that.
I'm sorry to tell you Dc had hard content predating OC, you weren't always grantee to beat everything every time you went into it.
Again the fix isn't to take things away from people who are doing harder content the fix is losing the entitled mind set and meeting people and growing in the game with them learning new stuff this is a mmo, the reply that's coming is "I don't want to or I don't have time for that" Then it's simple play the content that's made for you and enjoy it.

Yea back in the day you'd run even raids like Prime and never be quite sure if you'd finish it, it even applies to the old batcave or FOS raids.

Too many people in this game are approaching it like you can just blind queue content and they're just utterly disrespecting the requirements.

It's always, always been one thing to complete content and another to get feats, dating all the way back to the games inception yet some people are trying to shift this expectation.

Even when things are in EEG if you want to complete the hardest content and hardest feats then you need to form proper groups and better yet join a league.

Too many people are approaching it all wrong then just having a bitter fat cry about it.

What's sadder is what they're complaining about in this thread is the last line of elite rewards.

It's already easy to get elite gear, get the most significant progress in this game and im entirely fine with that, but what this lot in here are complaining about it literally the last strip of elite progress there is and it's tragic entitlement gone that bit to far

They need to dial it back and start playing with other people and putting in more effort, it's not like the game is gating their most significant form of progress, not even in the slightest.

Right all of that Content back then even attempted by good players wasn't always a for sure completion, I rem many days where Zeta Drone, Robot custodian and Brother Eye was giving us the blues. We laughed about it, clowned each other and tried to improve and figure out new things, that also promoted you to meet new people we use to know a vast amount of each other back then cause you played so much and was forced into meeting people. Be in league chat like dang we don't have a troll on let me check my friends list "SlicBac from this or that league is on" That was a good feeling beating stuff back then.

I agree, I remember those times; it was before content was written with the casual player in mind.

Yes, I promise you elitist tart. I don't bother with Survival Mode, I wouldn't bother with Elite as it should have always been.

Moreover, all of you waxing poetic about the old days forget one very important thing: clamped. Even if it took years, eventually people would be able to complete that old content through pugging. Skilled people got a head start on the SP but eventually it would be attainable by all. Now you've locked them away so you always get to feel special. Eventually though, those stats will add up again and they'll have to do a balance pass again, and then you'll whine when things are too easy again, and then we'll get Elite++.

The huge misconception is what an elitist is nothing Proxy has said has been elitism Proxy is an elite theirs a difference you have yet to take any accountability and say maybe I ask one of these people for help to improve or if they have a league that can help me with those feats.

Absolutely! Because those are not a part of progression. And the small amount of players that want a challenge will still have it. No matter how you look at it, "chasing feats" is an end game goal of the game, when all is said and done. Making Elite+ a part of "normal progression", instead of just an added challenge like it's supposed to be, eventually becomes an obligation. Extra challenge should never have become the new "norm". They should have just kept making regular Elite tougher.

I would personally prefer to see the return of elites like ultimate soldier where you could choose your difficulty if you decide to do boss by boss or face them all at the same time rather than other elite+.

You're another one acting like the clamp makes the content difficult or the feats impossible, it doesn't, at all, but stop thinking you can just walk in to content and have feats fall in to your lap any longer, you'll have to work for them, form proper groups and actually work together with the other players, like properly intended.

If the group is working properly, the feats clamped aren't difficult and if they are then you should be proving it, not just having a fat cry asking for the whole game to be nerfed and worse asked for feats to be removed or made unimportant because you either can't get them or won't put in the effort required to get them.

That's not me being an elitist, there's plenty of feats I don't have in this game because I choose where and what I want to put my time in to, but I don't for a moment sit here demanding those feats be removed because I don't have them, that's just ridiculous entitlement.

See that's your problem, you consider it "normal progression", feats aren't normal progression, they're the additional quest, normal progression is that obtained through mere content completion, so gear, is normal progression.

That's the very sense of self entitlement fueling this request in the first place, even with the feats elite+ does not become a problem, at all, period.

I've not bothered doing a single elite+ feat in this game lol (and again I'm not crying about it) and it isn't even remotely a problem for me and I'm entirely confident it never will be.

Yes it does make it a part of the norm. They may as well add Elite+ gear to it as well at this point.

Edit: It blatantly shows that one would have to chase those feats, eventually. For the points. Thus, norm.

You DO NOT have to chase those feats, you're creating that expectation in only your own mind. You have an obsessive compulsive disorder associated with feat collecting.

Tell me RavNoc what exact piece of content do you think requires you to have those feats to complete let alone be the difference between you actually achieving anything else.

You already have 761 SP do you seriously want to sit there and tell me with a straight face that lacking the elite+ feats is somehow impeding you? Seriously its just laughable at this point.

Still doesn't answer the question... If it's just for added challenge and fun, why does it need actual points attached?

And no, feats are not "additional quest", they are the long term goals of the game (if one were to be established).

I never said they were "needed", but the implementation shows that the extra hard content is implicated to be a part of normal progression.

Once again, it's about the principal of the matter.

We shall firmly disagree with one another then lol

normal progression in my opinion is that which is typically required to actually undertake a task, then you have stretch goals and added icing that tend to make things a little "easier" but aren't actually required on any realistic level.

Elite+ feats are entirely the latter.

It's tomato-tomahto man, I like to chase feats, and you don't. I don't expect you to understand. But the fact you can't grasp that it's ultimately frustrating that there is an impenetrable wall between me and said goals (in the form on uncompletable content), is what's laughable.

"Entitlement" of them being fair and not gatekeeping 95% of the population? The game did not need those points. Uneccessary either way. I know they are not needed, but it was a dick move.

One day maybe SP will matter more again, the difference will really finally show face then

No my issue isn't that you're frustrated at what you see as an impenetrable wall my issue is your outrageous solution being, well if I can't get them, delete them for everyone.

That isn't an acceptable solution, at all, period.

And yeah, if I ever did need the SP, know what I'd do, just go in and get them and not cry about it - even if they're clamped, they'd just be easier anyway.

Oh and I guess I don't really choose the right words, by "normal" I really meant more like, "they are including feat points to normalize Elite+ as content that should be focused on, rather then just added for the challenge"

Never really said they should be removed, instead more of not being added in the first place in the future.

Been advocating that since Critical.