Elite Plus Change Idea

You really think it matters much the difference between the "other thing"? It's all about numbers. People quitting because "they can't get points from feats in e+" would be so feeble it's ridiculous. Get real.

I do not feel that it is necessary to have stat points attached to content of the extreme level, as it was never that way for 13+ years.
The "extreme" level was added solely because players asked for more challenge. The challenge is the reward. Heck, I'm not even asking for them to remove rewards, but you make it seem like stat points attached to feats is some kind of ultimate reward.

You keep your perspective, I'll keep mine. It does not matter my reasons or "struggles", as it is irrelevant to my entire point, regardless of low population or "d-bags".

No one ever had to rely on such nonsense to get all of the feats in the game before this sweaty crap came out. You just say otherwise because you can get them easy and don't really care. Even if I COULD get them, I still say I don't want them there. I've been saying that since critical (yes I got those feats). It's not "sour grapes", and not because I "can't get them", I just strongly never believed they were necessary.

I won't sway. They are not necessary for engagement. There's many other things they could add to give "enticement" (since you are so bent on keeping e+ a part of normal gameplay spectrum and not just there for a fun challenge). Doesn't have to be just titles and cosmetics. Could be more loot, heck even better gear or a prestige system where you can "rank up" to unlock such things. There are always alternatives than a few stat points attached to feats in which you claim are so miniscule they "don't matter" yet hell bent on keeping.

As for Survival Mode, you said it yourself. And it works. However, elite+ never goes away so guess what? It's a available for the challenge at any time. Why does it need points for you to enjoy the challenge? To bribe people to do it with you? Get real.

I've stated what I think, feel, and believe. They are not necessary.
"defeats a large part of the purpose and takes away the fun".. you are so hypocritical it's hilarious.

You won't change my mind.

So...
Better gear in Elite Plus: yes.
Few feats in Elite Plus: no

Lol thats crazy.
Look how much people are crying over a few feats because "it affects character progression" and imagine if better gear (which would have better cr and stats, meaning more character progression) is available in Elite Plus raid.
It would be even worse that how it is now.

I knew people would take that hypothetical suggestion too serious.
But yes. The game never locked feats behind super difficulty before, as it was never necessary. Feats exist to chase, and it's really stupid to have them locked behind a gatekept system. That "new gear" isn't featured on a checklist system for players to chase completion. It's different entirely. Gear is obsolete when new episodes come out, stat points are forever.

Many players feel that the point of the game, when all is said and done/gotten, feats are the only thing remaining to chase. An end-game goal. One that was never locked behind content only a small percentage of the playerbase could obtain for 10+ years, merely because some sweaty tryhards wanted more of a challenge.

The development cost of adding feat points to feats is next to nothing and nobody is negatively affected outside of completionists, the smallest subsection of DCUO players there is. If it bumps up their engagement metrics by even 0.02%, it's a net positive no-brainer.

You couldn't have possibly picked a less comparable example than the "other thing".

You know what else hasn't existed for 13+ years? A raid with no feat points.

True, fact or logic based evidence to support and substantiate a position can be and often is different from ones motivation to take said position. Your evidence is only that it's not necessary. But we don't live in a world that aims solely for that which is of minimum necessity and considers anything above to be unacceptable excess. Unless you're living in the wilderness with nothing more than what fits in a backpack, then you'd be failing just as bad as everyone else by that standard.

Your motivation is that you can't stand when other people have things that you want but don't have and you think they should have those things taken away as punishment.

I never said I can get them easily. I have all the ROEe+ Felix Faust boss fight feats, all but one of the TTe+ feats, the CTe+ 1st boss feat but that's it for E+. I'm still missing Projectile Pirouette and No Death for FFe severe/crit and I only have a couple from TSDe severe/crit. And you know what? I'm perfectly ok with not having those feats. Hell, I'm running out of excuses to decline joining groups going for the Explosive Thoughts feat. I may get some or all of those feats in the future. I may not. I don't really care all that much. But most of the people I play this game with do.

Human beings on average are quite selfish, self-centered and narrow minded as a whole, so I understand why people often think it's hypocrisy when one debates for a position that has little to no personal impact or they don't personally fully subscribe to. But it's not. One can debate on behalf of that which benefits others. Feat points in feats benefit others a lot more than they benefit me. The only people they slightly negatively impact are completionists who otherwise would have every feat in the game. And that is a MUCH SMALLER percentage of the community than your supposed "1% who run E+".

To summarize, you're arguing for the removal of something based solely on its lack of necessity despite necessity not being the bar for anything in DCUO, video gaming or even the reason for the existence of video games. You're justifying the negative impact to those who run E+ by citing how small of a percentage of the population they are when the only benefit is to completionists who are a MUCH smaller population percentage.

And yet somehow I'm the hypocrite.....

Only completionists? It's the entire point of the game in the long run...

There's a literal check list for collecting them.

This entire back and forth boils down to one thing: To each their own.

Basically, elite+ was only supposed to be added for a challenge, not infused as a part of "regular every day content". This is the toughest part for me to try and explain. Survival Mode is the best example for that, as it's literally 100% optional. Yes, I know it's still "optional" to chase feats, but you have to think outside the box at the entire principal of the matter. Even if wanting to be a "completionist", progression of any form was not locked behind extremely hard content that barely anyone can accomplish. Until Critical and Elite+ came around.

I don't like it and don't think it's necessary to entice or bribe players to enjoy the challenge/content, and feel their entire existence (stat points attached) makes elite+ *seem* like it HAS to be completed, but again to each their own.

No, it's not the entire point of the game. Different people play this game for a lot of different reasons. For most players, getting max sp isn't even remotely close to being any sort of a goal. Even before there was elite plus and Standard-Critical, the amount of characters on the US PS/PC server who had max sp was less than 100. That includes alts so a lot less actual people. The amount of characters who had even 90% of max sp was less than 300. Again, a lot of alts in there.

Completionists are like 00.1% of the game. It sounds like you're one of them though. Good luck with that.

If challenge and progression aren't supposed to be intertwined, then there shouldn't/wouldn't be feat points in any elite content. You may not see normal elite as challenging but a lot of others do. So based on your premise, they shouldn't be gatekept from progression then as well.

You've made it clear that you're not in the elite plus player circles on your server so you're just guessing at what entices players to play the content. I play with these players every day and I know quite well that you're guessing wrong. Without the feats, players would beat it once, maybe twice and then log out, never to be seen again until the next DLC launches.

You're looking at this through a singular, simple, narrow minded perspective, yours. It's clear that you couldn't possibly give less of a f*** about any other players in this community other than yourself. It's extremely selfish.

To paraphrase you're entire argument...

Raven Nocturnal: "I want this because based on what I think and how I play the game, I will benefit from this. I don't know any of the kinds of players this will negatively impact, so I'm just guessing that those players who will lose out on a benefit they've always had up until this point won't mind too much."

Once again, you are not thinking outside of the box or even the principal of the matter. I can at least understand your perspective, as you do zero effort to understand mine. Once again, to each their own.

You still aren't understanding at all.

"Without the feats, players would beat it once, maybe twice and then log out, never to be seen again until the next DLC launches."
This makes the ENTIRE point of it merely being added for a challenge moot. I don't know how you can't grasp this concept. You are acting like my perspective is going to get them removed.

Up to this point? I never said retroactive. You are Fighting really hard to keep points attached to feats, really looks like ulterior motive, yet sit there claiming I'm the one who keeps saying "I, I, I". Even though I've stated it's my personal belief in which you have a major problem with. Tough cookies.

You claim I'm being narrow minded when you won't even expand your mind to see my perspective on how it was never like this (at the very least).

Edit: You are wrong about feats on regular elite, as they were never (as long as I've been playing and from my perspective) as tough as elite+. And they were still doable after coming back stronger, but we won't get into that for obvious reasons.

You're a completionist. You have unchecked feats on what you see is a checklist. This bothers you...because you're a completionist. You can't get those feats because you don't have people on your server to get them with. You want unchecked checkboxes to no longer exist for your character(s). You are incorrectly guessing that players who regularly run E+ won't mind that the feats don't give feat points because the challenge will still be there when by far and large they will feel negatively impacted.

It's a pretty simple perspective. I understand it.

You want to negatively impact many people so that one person, you, may benefit. My ulterior motive? It is that it really rubs me the wrong way when people are willing to f*** over a bunch of others for their own singular personal benefit.

How the heck are you getting ****** over if the hardest of the hard content doesn't have stat points attached going forward lol.

Because raid and alert feats have always had feat points attached and for the first time, they wouldn't.

I didn't say it was logical. Feelings often aren't.

I guarantee you if the E+ content for the next DLC is released and there aren't feat points associated with the feats, all the players I run with will assume it's a bug and rant and rave about day 1 content releases bugs before asking me to report the bug on the forums (I seem to have been chosen forums liaison to the devs by my league whether I wanted to be or not). Of course I'll inform them it's not a bug and that from now on, for the first time in the history of DCUO, raid and alert feats won't have feat points and instead will be like those pointless seasonal feats with no feat points that nobody ever bothers with. They'll be super pissed and increase the ranting and raving ten fold, trust me.

Since E+ content launches a few weeks after the rest, they'll have already done all the feats long before that point. So we'll spend a week (give or take) learning the E+ mechs and beating it. Then, with nothing to really go for at that point it'll be "see ya next DLC".

Of course they'll come back when more feats are added midway through the DLC. They'll take a couple days knock those out and go back to ghosting DCUO.

Because raid and alert feats have always had feat points attached and for the first time, they wouldn't.

I didn't say it was logical. Feelings often aren't.

I guarantee you if the E+ content for the next DLC is released and there aren't feat points associated with the feats, all the players I run with will assume it's a bug and rant and rave about day 1 content releases bugs before asking me to report the bug on the forums (I seem to have been chosen forums liaison to the devs by my league whether I wanted to be or not). Of course I'll inform them it's not a bug and that from now on, for the first time in the history of DCUO, raid and alert feats won't have feat points and instead will be like those pointless seasonal feats with no feat points that nobody ever bothers with. They'll be super pissed and increase the ranting and raving ten fold, trust me.

Since E+ content launches a few weeks after the rest, they'll have already done all the feats long before that point. So we'll spend a week (give or take) learning the E+ mechs and beating it. Then, with nothing to really go for at that point it'll be "see ya next DLC".

Of course they'll come back when more feats are added midway through the DLC. They'll take a couple days knock those out and go back to ghosting DCUO.

What odd is that you've admitted how much you value feat points and sp grinding, even to the point of having a compulsive need to have them ALL. Then you turn right around and act as if you can't believe or see any reason why those players care about feat points.

Does that not strike you as odd?

...okay? So what?

Btw, if I'm such a completionist why don't I care about the Survival Mode feats? Feats still show up on the list even with no points.

The entire point is, even if someone was trying to get them "all", there were never any locked behind content that was so hard it was damn near (if not completely) unobtainable. Such as TSWe+ feats. Nor had to rely on only the best of the best 1% of players that gatekeep them.

That's all there is to it. To each their own.

Edit: "Because raid and alert feats have always had feat points attached and for the first time, they wouldn't."
It wasn't supposed to be a normal raid, that's what I'm trying to say (and the toughest part trying to explain). They were supposed to add it as just a fun challenge for players that asked for it (meaning what players asked for, not what they ended up doing). But it is what it is, it's not like I'm going to magically get them to make them go away. But I will never agree with their existence.

"will be like those pointless seasonal feats with no feat points that nobody ever bothers with"
Why? I thought the whole point of e+ being added was to satisfy players that asked for a challenge?

Normal elite also only exists for challenge as many players still find normal elite challenging. If challenge weren't the reason there would just be one version of the content like there used to be many years ago.

For some players, normal elite might as well be reg or event. Those players play E+ because that's the only version that is any fun for them and isn't button-mash, mind-numbingly boring for them. So why shouldn't the version they have fun playing have feat points when all the other versions tuned for other players' enjoyment already has them? To not have them is discriminatory. If content for group A has them, content for group B has them, content for group C has them but content for group D does not have them, then that is discriminatory towards group D. Just because you're not in group D doesn't make it ok for you to want group D to be f***ed over.

This really says everything. You couldn't care less that a change would make it so that hundreds of players no longer find the game fun and worth playing as long as that change benefitted yourself. I guess you're perfectly ok with operating that way. So there's nothing more to say other than I hope one day you learn to care about people other than yourself or at the very least learn to not completely disregard them.

Because that content itself isn't even necessary. Challenge is the reward no matter how you try and swing it.

Hundreds? Maybe on your server. Can't say I see that many caring so much about elite+ on Xbox. Especially since only two leagues can even beat them let alone do those feats (TSWe+ anyway).

And oh please. We are talking about stat points attached to feats, in which you are writing all these essays to me defending, like my personal perspective is actually a big deal.

Same with normal elite. It only exists for added challenge. So by your logic, it shouldn't have feat points attached.

I'm talking about all players on all servers. Again, I'm sorry that your server has such low population. That sucks and I empathize. But the game is bigger than you and your anecdotal experience on your server. Try and have a broader perspective.

This is a public forum. Anybody can read these posts and as sad as it is, there are others who also only see things from a perspective of how things affect them and only them. I try and take advantage of opportunities to explain why there are better ways to see the world than through selfish and self-centered points of view.

Elite+ content is a dumpster fire of toxicity because of the personality types of the people that frequently run it.