Counter-damage is broken!

Also, has anyone noticed double ticks when block breaking? It seems like the opponent not only takes damage from being block broken, but takes damage from being hit by the attack as well. Same with lunges. The lunge does damage but the attack itself does damage as well.

Its intended to do damage from the attack and the counter, its always been this way.

Oh? I must not have been paying attention. Whenever i pvp i dont even notice the numbers i just look at the health bars. Its something i noticed a few days ago so i was wondering

I noticed doing two tics of counter damage(two tics of 500) on a block in legends, not sure if thats intended.

I really wish counters were less leading to more battles that last longer and aren't decided by 1 mistake and or lucky guess, there fore id like to see counters around the 2k area, i know that sounds low but i think it would lead to alot more battles being won by the better player in the end.

How would it lead to the better player winning in the end if counter damage was reduced so much?

If counters only deal 2k damage, role shields will pretty much be able to nullify two+ counters per shield use minimum. On top of this, healing in arenas can heal back 2000 damage very easily.

This pretty much means that the damage caused by counters still will not be enough to even coming close to counter acting defensive abilities, making counters far less relevant.

Even tonight, I had an ice tank that absorbed two counters & due to his shielding his health didn't move down an inch and that's even with the increased damage. If this match would have been pre-counter changes, I probably could have countered him 10 times yet still lost without him countering me once (yeah I know, 1v1 can't be used to reason balance. It can be used to show how little counter damage matters though, considering it is simply single target).

TL;DR - Lower counter damage means counters are less important, people can get away with spamming more with lower counter damage.

This is all redundant though as this is adressing current PvP, which is going to drastically change with the next update.

Would you still think 2K counter damage is ok with 25k HP?

you dint adress my reasoning at all for wanting 2k counters, i said it would lead to balancing matches in the end[mainly speaking about 1v1] as it sits 1 counter can easily decide a match, its the same logic for having a best of 7 game series in basketball for example, meaning 1 lucky blow or {shot} doesnt decide a match over the course of many counters the match will be decided so as to see who is more skilled,

Read it again, I did address it.

The less damage counters deal, the less important they will be as reflects/powers/DoTs will deal far more damage & shields/healing/hardstun recoveries will be able to make them even less effective or important.

i disagree, the more times throughout a fight you preform a counter properly the end result will identify the more skilled player, did you not agree with my illustration of a 7 game series vs 1 game series?

but u missing the point where comunity does not like the 5k counters- excluding the dmg u get after that with a completed wm (even if it's a 35% hp pool). that pvp is no fun. why should pvp be all about perfect team comp and sustainable groups and counter system.

while i like it in legends, in arenas the dmg is too big combined with wm just keeps me away from pvp.
the counter for me should present opertunity for me do dmg if i react fast, not grant me more dmg than i do with a wmcombo+power+consumable, and alowing me to survive due to dmg mitigation. right now the highest dmg you can do is with a counter.

as someone said the counter dmg is prob adjusted for new season gear, jsut like the crits were, so i hope at least. or i wont be doing arenas anytime in the future.

for a new player pvp arenas and open world is jsut terrible experiance, cuz they might not know what's going on. the gear farm is too long of a road for a fresh player. by the time he learns anything or even get's his gear....he would prob quit pvp cuz it's broken. if he trys to farm the gear on legends, he will get used to counter dmg there, and when he comes to arenas, it will be "broken" for him. and counter dmg only intesifies the feeling that that player gets cuz he just gets blown away when he trys to do a block or interup or block break. so this system encourages player to ignore that, spam taps and powers and only look for a safe counter. funny that this counter dmg came together with the gadget revamp and we all know about gadget am...

as for ur fight against a tank.i assume u didnt use debufs. or you dont take those into consideration. go dps vs dps with a debuf on your loadout. fight shouldnt last longer than 5sec. as a support role your dmg is low so u need to take more risk. while dps can look for 1 counter to debuf and kill u.

countering less important yes, wich gives you diversity in strategy. you can go and take a risk of doing a finisher, and give imunity to ur enemy and be helpless. counters would still play a big role if they hit for 10-15% hp. they would play big role even if they did no dmg but just give u imunity. right now it's only counters matter.
why not make opnonent helples without ability of breakout after he gets countered. so he would still have higher risk but not punishable if the enemy cannot take advantage of that window. delay and lag...so much emphasis shouldnt be on countering....skill shouldnt just include countering but ability to do high burst dmg aswell.

it's not 2k counter on 25k hp, it's 10-15% of 25k hp so in new season 2500-4000 dmg.

you are trying to defend a broken mechanic this whole time, pvp as it is , is broken high stats and WM and now this...it's not enjoyable for the most part.

we do agree on one thing, this whole discussion is pointless since the new pvp season comming soon.

No because it isn't true, it's more like one player having to win a 7 game series while the other can still win without winning a single game in a series. That's what low counter damage does when everything else is so much better.[/quote]


I actually know a lot of people who've advocated stronger counters in arenas for a long time, and actually prefer the current damage in comparison to what it was previously.

Let's get one thing straight, immunity barely helps survivability in arenas anymore. It doesn't provide enough to really be mentioned in arenas considering how many things can blow right through it instantly.

Zerk SC can still do far more.

This logic is simply flawed, otherwise no game with any sort of competitive PvP would ever exist. People get absolutely destroyed in many games in no time at all when they make mistakes, just look at games like street fighter, dota, guild wars 2, LoL, counter strike etc.

The thing is, there is no such thing as a safe counter unless the opponent has made a very bad read on their opponent and tried to counter at the wrong time. This is the players own fault and something they can easily adjust to and learn how to counter properly.

I take it you haven't played a proper pre-made 5s since the update? Heals, shields (including group shields) and role bonuses (such as tank's multiple survivability increases) all can help counter act counters successfully even still. You try running as a 5 dps team vs a team with a proper composition who're also good and tell me that they "melt in five seconds". They don't, not unless they get countered when they shouldn't be risking counters or their healer/troller isn't any good.

You're saying arenas should be about composition, strategy and counters...it still is! Like I said, just try scrimming against a good team running with a full composition with your team running nothing but DPS. Unless you counter the opposing team significantly, you will lose (and you should lose if you get out-countered heavily, regardless of composition).

In fact, I would argue that teamwork is even more relevant now than it was before. This is because healers need to be on their toes much more, trollers need to have their group shielding available for a counter at the wrong time etc., teamwork is of superlative importance now otherwise you will just get melted.

Because arenas have so many ways of breaking out of a hardstun, that is why.

Legends works fine with the lower counter damage because of the counter punishment.

In arenas, counter punishment is almost non-existant against a good player due to managing their CC recovery abilities.

This is why counter damage in arenas should be much higher in comparison to legends -> counter punishment is far less relevant in arenas than it is in legends.

No no no, it isn't broken. The upper-end of the damage for counters is rather unbalanced, there's a difference. Players of superior skill still beat those of less skill and there are still ways of mitigating the damage. Broken implies it is simply uncounterable (old steel for example) and that honestly isn't the case.

Yea counter dmg is broken people are getting one shotted by one lunge or bb. I can understand if wn is obe shotting by a lunge thats too much dmg

If GU41 is 4-6 weeks from live I don't think we can wait on a fix, pvp is a big draw here and with Destiny looking fresh and new its important for DCUO to offer its best experience till the shine wears off (which I think is going to be quick). It's not about whether the mechanics are broken or not its about keeping pvp fun and the counter damage problem is certainly not doing that.

i believe a quantity of counters allows for a more even playing field and in the end will show the better player,

It will, if the powers are also balanced correctly. In the current climate, such low counter damage would simply make counters less relevant.

yes some powers work differently than others, and im thankful for that. i dont want arenas to be bland where every power acts the same and has the same strengths and weaknesses, if some are more relevant to counters im fine with it, if some are better with dot staking im fine with that, if some lean to damage mitigation im fine with that, it would be a boring world if everything were exactly even in all respects, your never going to have every power act the exact same way in terms of counter damage and punishment and thats a good thing, it allows for alot more play styles to be relevant,,my opinion take it for what it is.

I never said I wanted them to be the same, I said I wanted balance. They're two different things.

define balance. because it means different things to different ppl. right now any power can do well in arenas especially with the crutch that is wm. the fact that some have diffeerent weaknesses and strengths is what makes the game interesting.

ITS FIXED!

Thank you for the changes, arena and duels are fine and fun again.

Great work.