Controller CC Removal & Tank CC buff

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by TheDark, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. TheDark Devoted Player

    What exactly is the thought process of removing CC from a role designed to physically control enemies by default AND give power through limited mechanics WHILE debuffing enemies? Seems like a complete dumb down of the role.

    If anything tanks don't actually need to physically control enemies. They primarily are damage sponges and taunt enemies. Taunting NPCs doesn't require physically controlling them since most just lunge or move towards the tanks (this is evident in boss fights or NPCs who are CC immune/resist). If anything controller control effects should have been significantly buffed in range and effect. With 2 controllers and buffed control effects, the role would become more engaging as the 2 trolls group the NPCs with pulls and pushes in a herd toward the tank. The NPCs would be taunted already by the tank so there would be a low threat for the controllers.

    My download of test is currently in progress but I would like some detail from the developer as to why this shift is occurring. The controller role in it's current testing state seems lame.
    • Like x 2
  2. spack2k Steadfast Player

    Its better that way , Tanks have difficulty with gathering npc because of the CC abilities of Controllers on Live.

    Gather Adds is one of the most important jobs of a Tank.

    PS: Atomic excluded.
    • Like x 3
  3. Moja Developer

    The patch notes for each power only detail the major changes, and are not exhaustive. CC has been reduced across the board, including ice (pretty much all root->encase frostbite interactions have been removed. In addition, Controller CC will generally last longer than CC from other roles.

    Controllers, as the name implies, should have the best CC in the game. After testing it out, if you feel Mental needs more CC options please let us know in the appropriate test thread. Thanks!
  4. Amanda Bailey Devoted Player

    Then remove Panics and Quantums stupid stun, every other Controller stun can be managed by Tanks.
    • Like x 2
  5. TheDark Devoted Player

    Taunting them is the important job. The gathering of them can be done by either role and it's often reckless controllers who make it difficult to round them up for a tank. At the same time when they actually have special NPCs for controllers, on the rare occasion they do, it's the tanks who also become reckless. Example are vexors.

    By buffing controller effects on pushes and pulls significantly you can greatly increase the efficiency in rounding up NPCs. Most tanks, even controllers, don't even know how CC works for specific NPC types and those will always be the ones who don't understand this issue. I do understand what you are saying. But I am saying with careful thought, they can provide greater quality to a role that is already aggressive in design.

    They are currently keeping the longer duration mechanic for controller specific controller effects. That in itself has always had an advantage over any of role's CC.
    • Like x 1
  6. spack2k Steadfast Player

    thats exactly what they will do , they removing roots( quantum/nature) and encases (troll powers) those which tanks cant pull, tanks have no problem pulling stuned enemies though
    • Like x 1
  7. light FX Steadfast Player

    In one of the threads they mention having 1 troll be the crowd control troll while the other is the power troll. How exactly does that work if CCing has been removed from the controller role? I really dont wanna judge things this early w/out doing a lot of testing. But there seems to be some contradictions with some things. Or maybe its just not explained very well instead of saying is a contradiction.
  8. Amanda Bailey Devoted Player

    Roots and encases have purposes as well. Think of the Reavers in Brainiacs bottled ship or the Vexxers in love and war. Reavers would do one shots and Vexxers would drain power, if they plan on keeping these types of NPC's then Roots and Encases should stay as well. Removing the solution to a problem isn't balance, quite the opposite
    • Like x 1
  9. TheDark Devoted Player

    Mepps said that our CC will continue to last the longest. So that's longer than Tank CC. As long as our actual Stun effect remains, they can remove encases or roots (i don't mind that), and perhaps keep our physical push and pull effects, you will be able to control in all content with 1 or 2 controllers.

    The problem then becomes the quantity of stuns we can actually use. The devs removed alot based on that list. I'm not on test yet but I want to count how many powers we actually have and how many will actually CC. The issue will be, as always, how many NPCs the devs add to content where our stuns will actually mean something. Like more NPCs that don't breakout and more special NPCs for COntrollers only to deal with.
  10. light FX Steadfast Player

    I disagree with saying remove the stuns from quantum. The stuns are a big part of being a quantum troll. Many people think quantum has the best stuns in the game. Removing them would make quantum not quantum anymore.
    • Like x 1
  11. light FX Steadfast Player

    Yea i hadnt seen that comment yet. Just read it. When ya stun something with quantum with say dis wave or tach burst i wonder if those will change. I dont think either of those are roots and obviously not encasements. Im saying quantum cause my main is a quantum troll. But thinking about the other troll powers it seems like it should be ok the more i think about it. Ive gotta level some more on test to see some stuff and the effects.
  12. TheDark Devoted Player

    Those powers from Quantum are labeled as stuns but their animation design puts them in a "hard root" state. The infamous state where you can't physically pull them. I'm not sure what they'll do with that. I would compare it to Gadgets PDart but it doesn't do that anymore and it isn't on test server.
  13. Proxystar #Perception

    Interestingly isn't Mental the only troll power without a pull in its power tree, what are they going to do with controller pulls in the other powers I wonder.
  14. loupblanc Dedicated Player

    Coming from a Pvp perspective, removing Panic and Terror effects from some of the Mental powers will greatly reduce the incidence of stun lock. So that should be better. But its bad for PvE.

    Downloading test atm. Some of the changes I have read, like swapping the visuals of Winter Ward and Reflection :confused:, looks like changing something just for the sake of change.

    You devs were not joking when you said revamp. Cos this is a REVAMP, a huge change for controlling core mechanic. Its also a huge change for DPS as well. Removing some of the CC effects means that in solo or duo content, it will take more time trying to cc / juggle the adds while you DPS them down.

    Thumbs up for the change for tanking core mechanic (more active tanking ala Atomic), and also making the need for 2 Controllers greater. Do note there now needs to be a tutorial for Tanking, Controlling and Healing cos some ppl (even at mid to end-level content) have no idea with regards to the support role mechanics, and also the roleless buffs in alerts.

    Without further information on the reason(s) for this shift, this HUGE change across the board is counter-intuitive, changing something just for the sake of change, and greatly GREATLY changes the look and feel of each powerset.

    Quantum with a whole less stunning, Mental with a whole less Panic and Terror, Nature (as a secondary controller using Harvest to root adds) etc.

    If there are technical reasons for this change, then testers would suggest changes to make the new meta better. Cos if not, most Controllers would definitely want the current meta to be retained, cos that is known, tested and working on live.
  15. Ash Inferno Well-Known Player

    I thought controllers were going to be "more controllery". Those big stuns can be the life or death of a tank with a good controller behind them. I just think that a tank's pull should be able to pull an ad while it's hard stunned and/or rooted. It would kinda be great to see controllers pulling ads to specific spots again (i.e. FoS 1 & 2, not sure what else), you really don't see it much these days :)
  16. HoiiowDreamz Dedicated Player

  17. TheDark Devoted Player

    I just saw this now.
  18. TheDark Devoted Player

    I added feed back in the link below for Mental CC. It's the paragraphs in the center. Unless you want me to extract it and put it here.
  19. spack2k Steadfast Player

    stuning them does the job as good plus tanks can move them

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