chasing scoreboard more detrimental?

I would say yes. luckily the game doesn't depend on two tanks bcuz them racing for dmg in/dmg out would just be silly. play your role and just bring your A game. not your shame game. yakno, the one where you pop PEDS and compare yourself to someone who isn't. or when you slip in POT bcuz your tick is the same so you try to make the main troll look weak. or a healer spamming everything just to say he healed more than the other.

don't be that guy. cuz to me,you look like an idiot who probably has small pp syndrome.

Anyone who chases the scoreboard is a class-A clown. The reward is accomplishing the group's goal with as few, preferably none, deaths as possible. It's one thing to do your role and come out on top but it's totally different to spam powers just to be on top.

A friendly competition between all the DPS is a good idea, as long as they don't treat others badly.

I think DPS scoreboard chasing is very beneficial, except for a few freak incidents.

In terms of trolls or healing, its useless. The PoT trolls going to have more power out. To contest that is stupid and foolish.
Healing out? Keep us alive with as little power as possible. Mission accomplished. Tanks are almost always solo anyways. Dont die, keep aggro. Mission accomplished.

DPS have a much different job, which is to destroy anything in sight as quickly as possible. Damage out is how fast you are killing. Its very comparable. Being power concious and keeping the deaths to a minimum leads to more damage out. If you burn too much power, you run dry and dont DPS too well. If you die all the time, you're not DPS'ing with a cog over your head.
Damage out is not perfect, but it definitely is something worth comparing for DPS.

damage out needs to be divided by power in [minus power out] to be anything close to a truly meaningful metric though. with perhaps modifiers based on is your powerset might or precision based.

Lots of grey area in there though. If the trolls are capable of handling it, max DPS'ing is very effective, which is ignoring the power constraints to deal the most amount of damage possible.

in regular old raid groups, sure damage per power in matters, but its very much possible that paying attention to this will hurt the groups capability. If trolls are able to handle a heavier power consumption, the power should be used.

It'd be like me having a car capable of going 0-60 in under 3 seconds but never using it. Why have the capability then?

I will always pop in a thread like this and say "get rid of the scoreboard= solving many issues in this game".

yeah. there's a balance there. power is definitely there to be used. but if you use 4x what i do to do 1.2x the damage... there's something to not just basing things on pure damage out numbers.

Getting rid of the scoreboard wont help what you think it will.

Us "elitists" will always find a way to keep runs smooth. Strict inspections, more observing, or a variety of other tactics will reveal the same info we would otherwise find on the scorecard.

Worst comes to worse, people will have a harder time venturing out of their inner circle of players. PUG groups will be miserable fails from how many people would take advantage of the lack of a scorecard. Some might even join a raid and intentionally do nothing and hope to be carried.

Not having the scorecard will open up a Pandora's box full of problems that I cant even hope to list.

Or the guy who uses 4x as much power but does half the damage as the top dps. I've been in those runs with my controller far too many times with that guy yelling for more power when he's a detriment rather than a help to the team.

heh i hope you didn't really mean to imply that scoreboard chasing keeps raids running smoothly

yeah there's that too.

Gunny on point with this topic.

I get it.

Its obvious theres trash DPS out there. Trust me, im by no means here to defend against things like this.
This example above is an obvious problem, and it happens once in awhile. Boot his *** and get another DPS.

All I am saying is that although Damage out by itself is not the almighty factor, it is significant enough where a degree of competition for it is beneficial. Even the example above relies on damage out as a significant factor.

I think the scoreboard is one of the best things they ever put in the game for DPS...Its the best tool we have to measure effectiveness of certain loadouts/rotations and weed out DPS that may not be ready to do certain content

Its useless for everyone else.

I wish I could have put the idea as simple as this.

They should just put in a option in Settings to disable the scorecard if a player doesn't want to see it. But don't take it away from me. It is a good tool to use so a player can see what is working and what isn't. I will acknowledge that it sucks when players use it to grief other players, but for those of us that want to maximize our effectiveness in the game it is a priceless tool.

I would advocate the full scoreboard only being available for the group at the end of a mission.
During a mission, a player should only be able to see their own score stats.

I think chasing the Scorecard is not a good idea as well... and

I think almost everyone definitely DOES chase the Scorecard, and those who say otherwise are not being honest with themselves...

And I think it's virtually impossible not to do so in DCUO.

I think it's bad for the game, and bad for the players to chase the Scorecard because it takes the focus strongly AWAY from enjoying the game. It becomes annoying and stressful because you can't enjoy where you are, or let yourself be immersed in the story, or just the experience of playing. Instead of relating to our fellow players in a friendly way, and fostering friendships, which is the result of cooperative experiences, it makes even PvE into a highly competitive environment in a particularly bad way. It makes people treat each other according to those numbers on the Scorecard, and with zero decency or friendship. If someone is falling behind in the numbers, there's no human connection going on... it's just /KICK.

MMOs would do well to hire sociologist/psychologists to help them understand what will maximize the happiness of the players and what factors make players most want to stay with a particular game. It seems to me that after years of observing these environments, the #1 staying factor is the social connection people make within an MMO. Even when there is no new content, and no carrot to chase (some sort of upgrade or what have you) players will keep spending hours daily in a game if they have positive connections with other people there. Players will find ways to entertain THEMSELVES in the absence on new content, and will have some of their most memorable and enjoyable experience doing so, simply because they are spending the time making friendships, and community.

But for the above to happen people need to have actual human and friendly interactions. Harsh competitive edginess, and cold impersonal calculations stand in direct opposition to fostering a warm community of people who like each other.

On the more technical side, chasing the Scoreboard also makes people play the game itself less strategically/intelligently. The Scoreboard only keeps track of numbers for a narrow set of factors. There are so many parts to playing well in technical terms, and almost none are tallied on the Scoreboard. All you have to be measured by is your total damage as a DPS, your total heals out as a Healer, and your total power out as a Controller. Anything else you do is taking time away from doing the above, and if anyone else with you gets much ahead in the numbers you WILL be /Kicked out without a word of apology or thanks.

Because of this players are discouraged from much of what makes for smarter gameplay, and probably a higher chance of success too. People aren't going to rush to revive others when they know they will fall behind on the Scorecard and either be looked at as though they stink, or /Kicked. People aren't going to take the time to move to a safer location where they'd absorb less damage. People aren't going to be sparing with their power consumption when it would be a good idea to do so. People aren't going to take a step back and think through the strategy. People aren't going to pause and let folks catch up or refill on power between groups of mobs. People simply aren't going to play smart, or take the time to be good to the players around them because EVERYONE is being measured by strict numbers, and nobody takes their foot off the gas pedal when the sure result is being thrown out.

However, I don't think putting the PLAYERS down for this behaviour makes any sense. This is how the game is designed. Everybody plays this way (except if you are a new player, and are mostly solo or duoing with a personal friend). As long as there is a Scorecard keeping track of these numbers, almost everyone will almost always play with the intent to stay within a narrow margin of the other people in their role. Nobody wants to be singled out as a poor player and thrown out.

The honest solution is to remove the Scorecard. If it's there, people will 100% for sure keep using it to assess who is good enough in their raid and who isn't, and that will always come down to who is falling behind compared to the other people on that same Scorecard in the same role. It doesn't even matter if the lowest person on the card is significantly OVERpowered for the content... if there are any wipes, and their numbers are lower than the others in that role, they will be /Kicked. Everyone knows this intuitively, and so everyone plays to maximize their numbers, and nobody treats their peers as friends.

Well with most PUG groups this is the case. Not to mention when you can hear them on mic clicking on duty while mid way through the boss, you can tell if they are doing bad or good because either their power output drops or drastically increases.