Bring back consumable clipping

I’m not going to debate semantics with you beyond this post, but the definition of a sacrifice is not necessarily surrendering something for something better. So I take exception to you describing the distinction I made as “nonsensical”. You saying it shouldn’t be the benchmark doesn’t change that.

Sometimes a rookie chess player will sacrifice a stronger piece for a weaker piece. It doesn’t make a difference to the act’s status as a sacrifice that it was a poor choice. And the reverse is also true. The OP describing giving up one trinket for a better one as a sacrifice is (as I stated in a prior post) technically true, but my contention is that it’s not a fair trade off and it’s a poor justification.

I hope the devs one day address this as it is an exploit. As someone who has provided proof to the devs of other exploits in the past and seen them sit on their hands, I’m not holding my breath, but that’s a separate discussion.

The OP seems to hold the view that his use of a hologram trinket, for something other than its intended purpose - to facilitate unintended clipping functionality - is justified because it’s using a slot on his utility belt he would otherwise use for something else. I think that’s a weak argument and have explained why I think that.

He also doesn’t support individual powers that are clearly imbalanced being modified to reduce their effectiveness because people will just switch to another powerset. I think that’s a weak argument as well. You’d never adjust any powers if you followed the OP’s rationale.

I have no reason to suggest the OP has negative intentions, but anyone who uses weak arguments to justify questionable gaming tactics, while also describing themselves as an extreme elite player, has a bit of a credibility problem. Do your “extreme elite” damage without glitching or bragging, would be my suggestion. Then when you have an idea to improve the game, you might gain broader support.

I’ve reached the point where I’ve said everything I want to say on this topic, some of it two or three times, so I’m done with this thread.

A rookie chess player would only do so inadvertently or because they perceived that said move would provide a gain in strategic advantage, even if that perception proved to be false when the actual result was a strategic advantage loss. Nobody ever pays value to knowingly receive less value. Even in cases where it's a loss on the surface, something more valuable is always gained if said transacting goes according to plan. Obviously many don't go according to plan or Las Vegas wouldn't exist.

For example, in the vast majority of situations, one wouldn't sacrifice $3K for a TV that goes for $2K MSRP. But in the situation where one is hosting a large Super Bowl party and their TV goes kaput at 11PM the night before and the only store still open that sells TV's is selling that $2K TV for $3K. One might then make that sacrifice because the avoidance of an utter fail at being a Super Bowl party host carries more value than the extra $1K being sacrificed making it an overall gain in value even when it is a loss in objective tangible economic value. And even if that new TV ends up being a lemon causing said person to still fail at hosting a successful SB party making the transaction an overall loss, the decision to sacrifice $1K extra was still made with the belief that the end result would be a gain via successful hosting.

You're talking to someone who literally sees EVERYTHING transactionally, even when I don't want to. Hell, my #1 life belief/mantra/quote/whatever is "All of life's quantifiable". I'm always calculating ROI (Return on Investment) probability, even in situation like where I'm considering investing the time and effort it takes to get off the couch, walk to the kitchen, get some food and walk back against the potential gain in dopamine and serotonin release and/or meeting my sustenance requirement for health and survival that said food would provide. I'm a total math nerd like that. You shoulda seen the comments I received the week BoP was released and everybody heard Lex say "Do you think I got the math wrong?!?!" lol. But I digress.

But you're certainly correct in that semantics aren't worth arguing about and this is getting off topic. I agree that if one were to center their justification for reinstating consumable clipping on this sacrifice, it wouldn't be a strong enough argument alone. But "weak" arguments can still be valuable if they are supplemental to strong arguments. I do believe strong arguments have been made by the OP and others regarding the benefit consumable clipping would provide vs the the loss it would provide and/or, to a lesser extent, the development cost in time and resources to do it while also considering where it's prioritization could, would or should fall in addressing prec/might balance in chunks. Also, some of the arguments against it are perfectly valid as well.

I do now as well as in the past, support the notion that chopping down the current FOTM doesn't solve anything. I acknowledge that logically it would seem that if most powers/playstyles seem balanced and that there are only a couple outliers, bringing those outliers in line with everything else would achieve the goal of relative balance. But I've also seen this process play out over and over and over. Every power nerf is succeeded by a mass migration to the perceived next best power which is then succeeded by the rise of a pitchfork movement to nerf that power which eventually results in another nerf and so on and so forth. It's a cycle that has repeated itself enough times IMO to sufficiently demonstrate that the above mentioned logic is flawed and that perhaps the primary underlying problem is perhaps something other than a small minority of power(s) being tuned to have significantly higher maximum damage potential(s).

My best hypothesis is that the issue lies in the fact that the Venn diagram of top echelon players and players who feel compelled to play as what is perceived (whether accurately or not) to be the best power has a ton of overlap. So when a huge majority of top players flock to the newest supposed "best" power, their level of play while using said power creates a situation where that power is regularly and significantly outperforming users of other powers. Additionally, so many players who know this game in and out using the same power that was previously much more seldomly used by so many knowledgable and experienced players tends to revel a new trick or five within the power (exploit, intended or otherwise). Though most of the time those tricks have been known by some, they become known on a larger scale which always eventually communicated to the masses in YouTube videos, conversations, forum posts, etc. Then even average players are using these newly discovered optimized loadouts and rotations giving an even broader perception of the powers maximum damage potential superiority.

Let's say for arguments sake, D.I. tracks the average damage output (measured in whatever terms) of every DPS who runs TSDe over the course of time giving a sufficient data sample and breaks that data down to rank all the powers first to last in actual (not potential) average output. Now, lets say, again for arguments sake, that in those rankings Gadgets is #1, Electricity is #2, Mental is 3rd and Fire is 4th but that Mental and Fire fairly close (less than 2K/s). Now lets say Gadgets gets nerfed, the cycle I mentioned earlier repeats, electricity is later nerfed and the new top perceived power is mental. Now, even though in that data-supported ranking fire was very close behind, when a huge majority of top players switch to mental and the process I mentioned above plays out, mental will appear to take off on fire and every other power in terms of actual (not potential) scoreboard results throughout countless runs by countless players throughout the community. And not because it would be actually superior in it's maximum damage potential tuning, but because it's the choice of a majority of top players and many not-so-top players copying those top players' publicly communicated loadouts and rotations.

That's my theory. Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, maybe it's somewhere in between or maybe it's a supplemental factor to other more primary causes. But one thing is for certain, it is much more congruent with the historical pattern of general widespread shared community perspectives and the corresponding nerfs that follow than is the belief that most powers are relatively balanced with the exception of an outlier or two.

I like having you around . I’m not for all this office/email talk.

Me and you have two different thinkings. I want to buff might enough where it’s up to par with precision in its current state. You want to nerf precision to where it’s at mights current level.

Im sure you want to nerf rage, gadgets, and electricity, the top precision outliers. Where as I want to buff other powers to add more variety, thus making less outliers. Improving the balance amongst precision.

I brought up consumable clipping to help might come up not bring prec down.I specifically had karmic hex’s in mind. If hologram device clipping and bot clipping are truly exploits. And they’re gotten rid of I already know what the whole game would do. Go super speed and run both dervish and vortex and maybe even phase dodge too. Then what’s your next argument gonna be? Nerf super speed? As Illumin said, that cycle will continue and continue. Versus letting precision have its clips and give might this one consumable clip. With everything that we need to call out in todays meta it’s only fair for might to have at least one. If clipping isn’t someones playstyle then why should they care! Your already not using it so continue to do so.

Bump

I am having second thoughts on this now. I wanted to replace my PI superpower witth PI consumables but have found that the PI consumables are not ranged (only applies PI to nearby enemies). I don't think I can do what I wanted even if this was implemented.

It’d be nice if they added range PI consumables but unfortunately the best ranged one doesn’t apply a PI, explosive detonator.

removing trinket clipping isn't a specific what people would call a nerf. that would be a weakening of a specific cast power.
this is changing players rotations but with the goal of having the player use the powers given to them over finding ways to work around the system that is not intended.

from my point of view yall should have seen this coming the writing on the wall has been there for a while

Also, unless they changed something, they don't make criticals. Which would be great for Trans/Strat users.

This aged well

And yet, respectfully, I think some of it bears repeating (yeah, again) because a few people obviously aren't getting the point.

I love clipping. Totally in favor of it. I think there should be more of it-- consumables that clip are, IMO, a great idea given the appropriate cool down. Clipping is part of what makes the game fun.

That having been said, there are rules for clipping. If you clip a cast time or channeled ability, you're supposed to lose the damage. When you don't, that's a game-breaking exploit.

Yeah. Had to repeat that one too. In fact, I think that one's probably worth repeating in a separate post, but I don't want to annoy Nawanda any more than I already have .

I think after they just recently took away trinket clipping that should be a sign they definitely ain't bringing back consumables clipping either

Took away/ fixed more than that. No more bots, trinkets, and turret in a way due to power consumption. Probably starting to make other weapons viable to top prec setups now.

Probably true, sadly. This game offers less faster play styles year by year.

That is indeed probably the case. However, consumables ARE intended to be used IN and FOR combat. Bots and cute little aesthetic form change giveaways are/were not. In that sense, there’s still a case to be made here.