Bring back consumable clipping

They had a rule of beneficial vs offensive power.

Anything that can do damage is considered offensive.
Anything that heals, buffs, shields, etc, is considered beneficial.
There are a few that fit the middle, but they consider "offensive" and that is utility, such as Fortify Golem as an example.

At this moment, there are too many that don't follow the rules listed above that I don't care if they make these clip-able. It might bring some spark to these PI consumables outside of the Quantum one. Which is loved by Tanks.

I’m not saying that only I can like animations. I was pointing towards the fact that might has clear disadvantages towards prec, and that I prefer to be might which is why I brought up the animations. Someone who wants to see their animations versus someone who wants to do more damage should not interfere with the other. Clearly the players are playing for different reasons. You said yourself you don’t want it in the game because you don’t like the faster playstyle, so what now the whole game can’t have it because of the percentage who don’t agree. Using these consumable would be a choice. If you want to use them go ahead if not then don’t. Simple. This is a matter of gameplay mechanics not the aesthetics.

Right now, the most recent change to power consumption made it unsustainable to use Suppressor Turret as a clipping mechanism because the Ability wasn't being used as intended (i.e. to summon a combat support pet) and was instead being used as a means to clip Abilities that would otherwise not be able to clip - which it did specifically by circumventing the animation dovetail on the leading Ability and providing instant use of the Ability following its application.

This change was made because that exact interaction was considered an exploit.

If you're clipping a consumable, during combat, as a means of circumventing the animation dovetail on the leading Ability and proving instant use of the Ability following its application, then how is that not - BY THE EXACT SAME DEFINITION OF THE ABOVE - also an exploit?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

This isn’t a sarcastic question, but has it occurred to you that a better solution might involve both seeing the animations and doing more damage? That’s all the rest of us are saying. You’re creating a false choice.

The answer to the might/prec imbalance might be addressed for example by an ally or an artifact, or through buffing the base damage of might powers. Your proposed solution isn’t the only show in town. The next time damage is rebalanced, a range of options are on the table, and out of those options, I (and a couple of others who have commented in this thread) would not elect for consumable clipping.

I have a character who is rage and play might. That character clips outrage into lacerate. I also clip debuffs together in control role. Clipping has its uses in a limited way. What you’re proposing would lead to three distinct play styles where we now have two. My honest disagreement with you is that two of those play styles would be boring. That’s not an aesthetic judgement, it’s a genuine belief that like prec, consumable clipping-led might would not be fun. I don’t know how else to say it without being characterised by you as someone who is electing to look pretty or to have poor damage or to want to feel like a superhero. We just disagree.

I’m still able to use Suppressor Turret off cooldown for clipping in my ST loadout. Though I use it as a combat pet for AOE.

Gadgets has had the suppressor turret clip since nexus/dox days. Nexus was dropped in 2013. If this was really considered an exploit then they should have/would have fixed it by now. So many things can be used to clip, if clipping is an exploit than why haven’t they done something about it after all these years. Also as to my findings the change you’ve mentioned wasn’t a direct counter towards gadgets and even if it was how is this a solution versus making it work the same as robot sidekick, a pet that cannot be used to clip. Since we’re on the topic, me and many I’ve talked to believe this change should be reverted. Reason being is if your knocked out or stunned during the cast time animation, it will have gone to waste. As ice if you use frost blast and get knocked out you’ll now have wasted a third of you power bar and seconds of time you could’ve been using to Dps. As munitions if you pop big gun and get stunned or knocked down while in animation, it too will have gone to waste. That’s a 10,000 cost supercharge. I can just about guarantee that any player will be upset when that happens.

I too believe there are many solutions to bridge the gap some you’ve mentioned already. But as I said earlier this is not the end all be all solution to bridge the gap. What it is, is a utility to be used my might dps to HELP bridge the gap while we wait for bigger changes to be made. There is not single one solution to help might dps be on par with prec. We will need the supercharge pass and another look at the individual powers’ moves themselves. A good ally or artifact may also help. But guess what these are many solutions to fix the one problem. As my idea is, one of many solutions. When I made this thread it was just something that merely popped in my head because I knew of its usefulness in the old days. Stop trying to make me look like an enemy when I’m trying to help the game. If you don’t like the playstyle of clipping then don’t use it. It’s capabilities won’t matter to you because you won’t be the one using them, clippers will.

I’m glad we can agree that there are many solutions possible.

As for making you look like an enemy, you’re the one who strangely suggested others were shooting you down, when we weren’t. Happy to leave it there. Enjoy the game.

all I hear is I want to PEW PEW faster and pretend canceling something that's supposed to be there is skill

we can all clip,

sliding a finger is not skill

funny, because all I is “I can’t clip so I don’t want the function to be available for anyone else”

Clipping requires way more skill then rotating through a simple 1, 2, 3, 4, stationary rotation. Slowly going from one power to another isn’t skill either

sorry Stanktonia, you do 1234 rotation you might want to update that as its so advanced mechanics thats been gone for a while

all powers have clipable moves built into them if someone cant figure out their own powersets having some clip able consumable isnt going to help them get gud

Not voting one way or the other on the topic but the recent changes lead me to believe that it’s the 1st attack on unintended clipping. I’m going to say you (OP) won’t be seeing this happen. There’s a far greater chance that they will be doing other things to cut down on clipping. I do believe it will still be here just far less. Refer to Bumblings post. They have certain clippable abilities so those will stay. The bots and whatever will probably be going away.

The cast bar thing hurts. I’m ice and muni. I’ve always had the risk of being interrupted with frost blast. It’s a great approach power. It can be used in st boss fights but it’s always been a risk. Biggun, yeah it hurts but it already hurts when it doesn’t crit. It still kinda hurt when you’d lost the attack but keep your super cuz the fight was probably over before you got to try again. Muni isn’t a hurting powerset and it’s been asked to be put on the nerf chopping block before. Maybe this change was intentional to give it the nerf many asked for?

They clearly have realized that many are overpowering the game and doing things they never intended. Changes happen slow around here but they happen. The clamp was to calm us down and stop wrecking instances. I haven’t seen a boss glitch out since. Now they have players asking for gadgets and electric prec to get the nerfs and they made a general wide changes that calmed gadgets down a smidge. The circuit breaker super already has a change hanging around that hasn’t been implemented yet but that doesn’t mean it won’t be. They need to calm down damage all around so chances are, bringing might up to prec (which I don’t see that but guessing you mean gadgets/electric prec EoG spammers) isn’t the answer vs lowering precs damage. (Which again, better only be gadgets and electric with the usual meta since no other prec is meta)

That’s the problem this game has had for a long time though. They always nerf things to the floor which really only makes the game more imbalanced because people will just goto the next #1. With the recent change to gadgets now everyone is Electricity. If they want to offer more variety they should change the way certain powers work. I have an idea for that like making it possible for when in ice elemental, all weapon combos can be used as well as iconic powers and movement mode. For nature, do the same with gorilla and wolf. That’s two new powers that’ll be introduced in the prec meta. As for nerfing precision, the only thing that needs to be changed in my opinion is brawling’s damage. Many powers don’t have the luxury of switching from AoE to single target with a single switch like precision does so decreasing the damage could help in that balance.

When it comes to bot clipping, I.e mainframe bot, repair bot, broker bot, etc, I would hope that they don’t make any changes to those because players are already making sacrifices to run them. To run a bot you have to drop something else whether it be your soder cola, supply drop, or stat buff, whatever it is you choose to drop, that is a sacrifice.

Except if you tac swap.

Which I'm pretty sure the dw bow dps'es are already doing with the Hologram trinket that came from a time capsule. Why are we asking for consumables to cancel animations if that does the trick and is infinite?

I brought up consumable clipping to give something to might dpses that can be used to clip. The ones I mentioned previously are basically all precision clips. And you are correct about the tac swaps but you do lose damage for the tac swap back and forth.

I know this isn’t quite what is being said here, but I think it’s worth mentioning that precision strength wasn’t nearly as much of an issue when might was still the king of AOE and prec was the king of ST, even with a 56% venom wrist buff, 5% prec neck mod, 5% prec augments, non-clip dependent 4th tick, etc. It was only when SM “season 1” aka Single-Targetpalooza happened that it became a heated issue. Perhaps restoring that tradeoff while maintaining some semblance of balance as far the the necessity for both in future content is a potential solution.

The Titans episode was perfect in this regard, both as far as the balance of the episode’s raids and the might aoe and prec ST balance. In HiveE 1st boss, if you didn’t have strong might AOE in first boss and only had prec explosive shotters, you were gonna have a rough time. If you didn’t have at least a few flurry shotters against Deathstroke, you were gonna have a rough time. Machine E was the same with rotating or add and boss phases. It was perfect.

Let’s be honest though, it’s a bit disingenuous to describe giving up a soda or a supply drop to run the hologram trinket to clip as a sacrifice. Sacrifices have to be meaningful, after all. The damage gained through that method hugely outweighs the benefits of either of those. So while technically it is a sacrifice, it’s not a like-for-like trade. I just think your argument is weak. If you were in favour of narrowing the gap between precision and might I think you’d probably say that bot clipping/hologram bot clipping needs to go, as it’s only used by prec players. That’s not a race to the bottom, you can’t seriously be of the view that that trinket is being used for its intended purpose.

It seems to me you’re only interested in narrowing that gap in the one specific way you’ve suggested. You’ve also stated you don’t like broken prec powers to be nerfed. There’s nothing wrong with holding that view of course, but it is what it is.

I don’t think it’s disingenuous to petition for individual parts that would be one part of a larger solution as a thread topic. Outside of a comprehensive balance pass (which would be a ginormous undertaking on the part of the devs), it seems that addressing one thing at a time is more in the devs scope of probability anyway. IMO, it can only help to have more focused discussions on individual possible aspects of balancing. We’ve had plenty of threads on overall balance and they always end up so convoluted and unfocused. People either have to type out paragraphs in order for their points to be understood in proper context or they make shorter statements only to have to go back and forth with others because of misunderstood context simply because so many aspects are on the table in those discussions. They’re rarely productive. I’m not saying you’re wrong or anything, just that perhaps this is a better and more focused approach.

Also, because they never fixed the damn arrow tell for Brainiacs charge in FFe, bot clipping saved my a** countless times while atomic tanking it.

You make an interesting point about discussing one particular solution rather than a whole damage pass. I’m fine with that.

I never said it was disingenuous to ask for consumable clipping. I said it was disingenuous to be using a hologram bot for clipping and describing giving up something less useful off the utility belt as a sacrifice. It’s a hollow sacrifice at best. If he’s giving up his supply, orbital or buff trinket in favour of a hologram bot it’s because the clipping produces more damage than any of those other things do. That’s not a meaningful sacrifice. If I’m going into a war zone and I sacrifice my pistol for an assault rifle, I’m making an improvement. Mainframe bots and hologram bots not being intended for this purpose is a whole different point.

Well one would never rationally give up something more valuable for something less valuable. That shouldn’t be the benchmark to define something as a sacrifice as it’s just plain non-sensical. But even in the context of logical sacrifices, everything a prec DPS carries is valuable unless the specific mechanics rule things out. The buff trinket provides a significant burst of damage every two minutes, especially when stacked with other buffs (neo-venom, supply, etc), tier 3 pets now do quite significant damage, OMAC significantly boosts crits with 25% uptime which is big because of the strategist card and orbitals are well, orbitals. Supply drop doesn’t even make the cut unless you’re swapping. Henchmen aren’t even in the conversation other than being called out before the fight starts.

So yeah, having to go without one of those things is quite a significant sacrifice. One could argue that it’s one of, if not THE main reason why gadgets turret clipping is such a hot button issue because it allows gadgets to not have to make that sacrifice and also not have to tap an extra button to activate utility belt options (on consoles).