Any plans regarding PVP feats?

Those aren't PvE feats, they were limited time rewards. One of those had nothing to do with PvE.

Panderus is the one who raised “full feat points”, not me. Have some cajones and reply to him telling him he is being dramatic, if you think referring to full feat points is dramatic. Go on.

Might as well answer you both at once.

Reinheld:

1.) No that's exactly my point! If you're telling me to get a group to get the feats by essentially cheating, then what is the difference between this and the feats just outright being given out?

2.) No they aren't the same. The reason as to why they 'cannot' get the feat are not the same. People are complaining about being given elite feats because of a lack of skill. PVP isn't down to a lack of skill, it's down to issues beyond the player's control (such as queuing issues). I only just found out that there is actually a system in place where queues are based on Skill which does explain why it's even harder to get put with people (especially since about 2 people queue everyday xD (this was obviously sarcasm)).

3.) In that case, why hasn't PVP just been phased out. If the devs don't want to fix it (unsure on whether they are or not based on Panderus' response), then they might as well phase it out, hand out the feats and then be done with all of this. If the devs do plan on fixing it, give us a bit of a time frame as to when we can expect improvements because several years on we're still being told 'we're not sure when it'll be fixed yet'.


Proxystar:

1.) I know that they are the reward. I was just saying that in my own (albeit selfish) opinion, I want max skill points which means I am chasing the feat points. I'm only being honest throughout this thread I've been clear that I'm fine with grinding the feats once the issues discussed have been resolved. But Panderus' response made it sound like they wanted to possibly give us the feat points but keep the feats as they were because they have plans later on? (idk I did say I was slightly confused by his response). I can see why you're mad about that though because that literally is 'getting the reward without the effort'. Whether they fix PVP so I can grind the feats or if they just give us the feats, I don't really care I just want the SP one way or another so I can one day (hopefully not too far away) reach max.

2.) See point 2 that I raised above in response to Reinheld. They aren't the same.

His response has thrown me off a little bit when he mentioned 'full feat points'. Didn't really understand what he was getting at. I was just saying to you that these PVP feats are worth nothing in comparison to the total SP that's out there.

And I will give my honest opinion to any dev so please don't think I won't. Doesn't take 'cajones' to do that. That's pretty much what this forum is for is it not?

Well I think so, but there are certainly instances where a player makes a point and gets jumped on, and then a dev makes the same point and it’s fine.

LPvE was a great example. It took years for a small number of players to make the point that the devs needed to do something about the astronomical time required to achieve all LPvE counter feats, and we regularly got shouted down. Then last Summer Mepps announced the 10X LPvE event and was met with universal positivity. I can assure you if PvP feats are granted, I will be making my dissent known, can’t confidently say the same for some of the other people in this thread, even though they are against the idea as a player proposal.

Of course I can live without them. They won't make a difference to my gameplay in PVE whatsoever tbh. It's more to resolve my 'OCD issues' that you spoke about before

I wouldn't say I'm mad, mad is an expression of emotion, there's not really any emotion here to that extent, I'm simply heavily opposed to such a move for 'reasons' it's not anger

In terms of your response with (2) i respectfully disagree, I think the queues not popping, which is debatable, but even giving benefit of the doubt can be fixed through other means of encouraging players to play

The prospect in my opinion of giving them away for free comes from not possessing the skill, if a player was confident in their ability they'd be advocating for the proper fixes so they can play and earn the rewards because they want to qualify win and achieve the reward.

Im going to be brutally honest here but a player that wants the reward by doing nothing does so because they're not good enough to win and they know it and that's why they don't even want to try and even if pvp were fixed they still wouldn't play and still want the rewards

That might not be you and I honestly think you're coming from a place of good intent given in every interaction we've had in this thread you've been open to actually playing, but there are those in this thread that aren't and have even admitted as much.

LOL, at least you're honest

I appreciate your stance on the subject, but we are of differing opinions. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I won't continue the tennis match past saying that while you make the argument they are NOT the same...they are at the fundamental level that they CAN be done. Via skill, luck or 'cheating' (trades) as you call it....and I'll debate trades are any more or less 'cheating' than someone going in with full 101 gear 600 SP and 200 artis on a mic'd league group vs randos in PVP...that's 'trade wins' without the actual trading....but they are still available and can be done.

Now if you can honestly say the feats cannot be done AT ALL, I'll bet you 10 billion dollars(in game) I can go out right now and get at least one of these feats on a scrub CR skip toon via random queue WITHOUT trade wins. Might take me a few tries, but I'll get one of them done....and if one is doable, they ALL are doable.

Now...if PvP were phased out...we can talk, as then they would be truly impossible, but I doubt that would happen any time soon as people do still PvP. I'd guess DBG knows exactly how much PvP happens and if it were 10% or less, they'd have shut that down long ago.

I don't disagree with you

Of course all the issues CAN be fixed. Whether the devs actually want to fix them is another story.

As I say, I'll happily PVP all day long for those feats. I've grinded many other feats which were just as painful. I'd just like the opportunity to do so. People have been asking for fixes for several years, but I honestly feel like it's at the point where you'd be chasing a lost cause now. Especially after Panderus' response. It sounds like they're almost open to giving the feats away which surely means they've accepted that they probably won't be touching PVP again?

I wasn't going to come back to this thread. The slippery slope hyperbole, the false equivalency, and no true Scotsman arguments of some posters is just amazing.

But this got me interested:

I'll call you on that. Lets see you take a scrub toon with no league mates or friends using only the queue and No trade wins a get a feat for "just" 10 wins on a single 4v4 Arena (Star Labs, Ace Chem, Belle Rev.. etc). This seems like a fairly simple challenge in the PvP feat grinding hierarchy. Youtube your entire journey with date/time stamps. I'm genuinely curious to see how realistically doable it is.

Well yea and I can't imagine a more horrible statement being implicitly made by a game development team were they to do so.

Pvp is a massive element of the game and the way it's been neglected for so long is absolutely terrible as well from a player perspective.

I know the excuse has been bandied around that the players can't decide what they want, tbh I just don't accept that because players are always going to disagree with what they want, it happens even in PVE.

It gets to a certain point though where you need to accept that and just fix it based on what the developers think is best and just work from there, they must surely have some data indicating what people liked from past points in time when pvp was much more active so it's not like there isn't at least some data to go on.

I think PVP was a massive element of the game. Not anymore. I agree it's terrible how it's been neglected because based on what other players tell me, it really was amazing. PVP nowadays from my perspective just seems extremely unenjoyable. Probably because of the lack of people playing. I almost wish I was around back when it was super popular just to experience what it was like.

And yeah I agree with you on the players deciding what they want part. I think the devs use that excuse purely as an excuse. It gives them time for people to argue some more before they reply with 'we don't have any plans to touch PVP right now but lets have this exact discussion in a years time' and the process repeats.

Realistically if the devs were going to do something, they would've, because as you just said there's obviously some stuff which they can do to improve PVP. I've said it so many times but PVP doesn't make them any money so I don't see them wanting to put the effort in to fixing anything tbh. I'm not saying this would be a 2 second fix whatsoever btw. But after several years you'd think the devs would have a half decent, clear response by now which outlines their plans for PVP. To say that you have no plans after this amount of time is just laughable. If they don't want to fix PVP, I wish they'd outright say so rather than giving us replies which are hard to make sense of

PvP currently is dead... Just dead. It's unbalanced mess. So the easiest way to solve the problem is to grant PvP feats with CR skip and add PvP styles as drop in PvE content. Or... You can try to fix PvP... But I doubt that you'll want to spend time and money on it.

First off, I didn't say anything about which feat I would need to get. I said 'any' and 'one of these feats'... Now, if you want to take the bet under those parameters as stated(meaning anything under the PvP tree), I'll go through the trouble of doing and recording it. If you are looking for a particular map like 4x4 star or maybe ace or whatever, that was not the bet (and 5, not 10, would be the minimum anyway, it's the first level on most or all maps). But if you argument is that SOME and only some of the feats are hard, then maybe the argument(grant us all the PvP feats) is incorrect as some of us are saying.

See on my main, I have all the PvP feats except 2 (10K kills and lair battles) which I'm kind of saving to do if they ever bring out a 102 gear set or do one of these suggested events as I have nothing to spend the marks on anyway. So I'm not restarting the grind on a scrub toon for fun (I never said PvP was 'fun'). If you want to go with the bet as stated which was 'one of' the feats (meaning even node captures or turret takedowns or any number of other feats falling under 'any') I will for sure video it and take the easy money.

This could play into a new system they seem to be working on - such as Cyborg and Batman becoming an actual part of your group during the Flashpoint duo.

Speculation on my part, but I believe that’s the new feature they referred to coming later this year - an ability to que into old content with less than the required group size (NPCs filling the empty spots). If that is the new feature, it could be applied to PVP just as well as PVE. The difference is that you would still need to farm PVP gear to be viable in PVP (NPC assist or not).

I actually wouldn't mind at all NPCs filling in the spots in 2v2s and up as long as there's at least one player present on each team, obviously if it were to be entirely NPCs then that would no longer be PVP, it would be PVE

I was gonna say that's literally not PVP anymore it's PVE xD

Also wouldn't it be much harder to implement this compared to just fixing the known issues with PVP? If there were NPCs that's just going to be a longgggg list of issues

If they’ve developed a system for replacing ques of real players with NPCs in PVE, then they’ve already done the bulk of the work.

If we’re talking about some difficulty issue, the fact is that there are poor, real life PVP players. I don’t see anyone complaining when they que in, beat someone easily and then get their feat count / marks for the easy win.

Oh if you're just talking about queues then yeah ok.

But PVP overall... I don't see how this would work. Yeah ok it can help people get the feats but it won't help PVP imo. There'd be bugs, exploits, so many issues.

I find your idea interesting though about queuing with NPCs even in PVE content. I think a lot of people assume that 'force queue' is going to be the upcoming feature but it didn't once cross my mind that it could be with NPCs. I just assumed if you queued for a raid with 3 people then you go in as 3 people and that's it.