My thoughts on art swapping

Probably because the direction leans players into a play style they really don't want to be a part of, not necessarily lacking the skill to do so. Personally, I CAN art swap (as buff troll), but I strongly don't want to have to come to that. And absolutely sure as **** don't want others to pressure me into "having" to do it, either!

Yeah, basically.

It did though (on my platform), and got REAL nasty...

This is actually a good point. If you think about it, many keep defending the game as not really being "p2w", but this aspect kind-of "allows" it to be considered as much with the ability to do so. Perhaps that is the biggest reason there is so much flack on the issue.

Edit: Not to mention the pressure for buff trolls having to appease the scoreboard chasers with 3x as many swaps artis haha

-_- being pressured interesting, you evr tried ignoring the people that are pressuring you. Like it's a game at the end of the day so move on.

Why do I feel like the majority of people in this thread are old heads that love complaining. SMH

I've heard from the top league players on Xbox that TSWe+ has been up to 8 hours of yelling at each other lol. Not sure how it is now, however, but a few months ago they told me it wasn't much different except down to perhaps 2-3 hours?

They are the only ones on the entire platform that can complete the content.

Edit: Basically, the population is way too small to do such a thing, and they have a major influence over the community. Putting them on "ignore" won't help, as they will just continue to spread rumors that dictate how others perceive you (as in, not invite you to groups if you don't play "their" way a.k.a. art swap and deemed "trash" because of it).

It really comes down to the principal of the matter. I *can* art swap, but since I choose not to, I'm deemed "trash" and black listed from toughest content. Hence why I give up dealing with the ******** and drama.

Why do you always put forward these ridiculous strawmans while pretending to make a valid rebuttal.

No one here is talking about not wearing artifacts at all, even though doing so is probably possible with very good players, you're basically suggesting at this point players should play without all sorts of other gear equipped.

What we're talking about here is whether you have to swap which is vastly different from not wearing any artifacts at all.

Reinheld with all due respect you're coming across is incredibly desperate in this quite frankly failed attempt to infer that players rely on swapping, you're basically so thirsty for this to be a thing your posts are getting sillier and sillier.

Yeah Rock elite is too easy to be a good example, but I joined this no artifact run for fun!


I was in a Cursed elite raid run this week where a dps was kicked for only having 1 artifact. The group wiped on 1st boss when each boss had less than 5% health, but the tank died and it was a wipe. No one probably would have noticed it the group didn't wipe.

It’s absolutely possible. I cannot think of any 1 mechanic in any elite content that is not manageable/survivable w/o artifacts.

Burn checks would probably be the hardest…since you’re handicapping your DPS by around ~-15% (just roughly assuming 5% might across 3 arts).

It would be longer with increased chances of error, but mostly manageable.

So....Artifacts ARE required then? Can you tell me where in the game or run's description that artifacts are required?

You cannot...because they are not required, just like swapping is NOT required for E+. However, just like artifacts....likely 200s, would be expected for Elite (let's face it...for some even in reg runs), for most, swapping would be expected. And if the people making the group expect it of you...well, what else would you call it?

Must have been that dang DPS's fault for sure!

And the group wiped because that DPS had 1 artifact? I'd guess not. Yes, I'd guess if a run is going badly, finding the 'weak link' would be first order of business. Especially if that weak link was dying a lot, or screwing up mechanics. However, I'd guess a low DPS with 1 arti even though he might have 0 deaths (except the wipe) or maybe was running cogs would have a big target on his back anyway.

And was your 'no artifact' run done in a random group off LFG or people you knew? Also would you guess that Elite+ runs generally more or less selective in who they pick up to fill the group? I'd say more selective, but hey....I don't run E+...maybe it's a free for all.

PS. Kudos on actually doing it though. Well done.

For sure and this just reinforces merely having 3 on makes it all the more possible.

There is just no requirement for anyone to swap, period, swapping is done by choice, not out of compulsion in nearly every circumstance except for some burn feats and we keep saying over and over adjust those feats.

Anyone claiming you need to artifact swap to simply complete elite or elite+ are being melodramatic and have no idea what they're talking about.

Outlier feats aren't content completion, they're stretch goals and there are numerous in the game that can only be describing as incredibly difficult even in a clamped setting, but that's a different issue entirely.

Artifacts are pieces of gear Reinheld exactly the same as any other. Deal with it.

Please do not attempt to run this preposterous argument that they're not.

You do not take your artifacts off any more than you take your chest piece or weapon off.

I mean you could, but no one is expecting you to do so.

Stop strawmanning.

You’re arguments are getting that much more ridiculous…

So you’re now trying to straw man it to either you have to art swap or have to have absolutely no arts equipped? Or no one in the group must have no artifacts equipped at all?

No. Arts are not required. They make things easier.
No. Arts swapping is not required in E+. They make things easier.

Art swapping, and arts in general, do not magically turn a bad player into a good player. A group of 8 great players can do elite plus without swapping. If they start to art swap they would just make it go by quicker. If you take a very talented group of 8 players, they can do elite plus without a single art. Adding arts makes it easier. Adding art swapping makes it even easier.

If you give arts to a bad player they won’t magically be good. I’ve out performed players with max cr and max arts on my farmer toons. I’ve out dpsed players with max cr and max arts as a support role. I’ve out dpsed players art swapping. Having max arts and having arts to art swap do not make a bad player good. If anything a bad player would either be worse or just get back to neutral damage art swapping since they’d likely not be able to swap effectively.

This is what you don’t get. If you don’t art swap and someone doesn’t want to let you join then that’s their right. You are not entitled to join anyone’s group. I have a friend who is not the best dps. But he’s often invited because he is damn good at doing pick ups and gets along with people. You’d be surprised that some groups would prefer players who help and/or follow mechanics than someone who chases the scoreboard and/or ruins feats/dies a lot.

So how come without art swapping can you only beat chme in 10 to 13mins. but if the group art swaps the alert can be beat in 5 to 8mins. I think art swaping is a complete exploit / cheat. And in case you didn't think so art swapping when the whole group does it is exactly like having a speed hacker in the group 100% game breaking. And you wonder why nobody is looking for any groups in lfg. because everybody is using this groundbreaking feature to cheat content with there own leagues and close friends/swap chat tabs

No amount I crying will make people take you and your lfg tantrums seriously. The devs already say it’s not an exploit. If you don’t like it don’t do it. It’s that’s simple

Lol, artifact swapping is speed hacking now...

Scraping the bottom of the barrel now.

There is an underlying/growing pressure to art-swap....

Whether it is right or wrong... or whether it actually makes a noticeable difference... There is a perceived notion that it is right and it does make a noticeable difference.... hence... the "You need to art-swap for optimal runs".


Sure... It's not always there.... but... it's always in the shadows because it's still allowed.