Test Discussion Ally: Poison Ivy

Your name is based around dps… of course you want them to release a passive that helps out the dps…


Here’s the thing people. Tanks are already the most sought after role because no one wants to play it. Now there will be an ally that will make it so that the tanks have to run it in order to further increase the groups damage. This community does not do the whole “well it’s options” thing well. If something exists that makes the dps pew pew better then the community will start to require it. I’m not in favor of making tanks also do extra things that will make them harder to find.

Now the whole “well trolls were forced to be buff trolls”. Controller role has always had an identity issue from the start because it’s not a role that’s seen in other MMOs. Trolls in dcuo have just been a mixture of other aspects that roles do I’m other MMOs. Most classes in MMOs have ways to regen their power (mana). This was stripped and added to trolls. Most classes have ways to CC and peel and this was given to troll (tanks retained this ability). Some come dps classes had the ability to buff debuff. In dcuo the debuffs were given to trolls and later on buffs were too. Take away arts and tanks still hold aggro and maintain enemies. Arts away and heals still heal. Take arts away and dps still dps. Take arts away and the troll role becomes extremely bland. Use 2 powers (attacks defense debuff) every 12 seconds (sometimes heal) and spam power dump for the rest of the 12 seconds. Adding the buffing component just gave trolls more things to do.

Tanks already have things to do. And while this wouldn’t change what they are doing. It just adds another requirement that this dps stacking happy community will ask for an already rare role. And not everyone has active leagues that will hand all roles readily available. Some players rely on LFG to make groups or join groups.

A defense debuff doesn’t directly help the tanks do their primary role. It just helps the dps. Dps that are already prone to chasing scoreboards over following mechanics. A damage debuff falls in line more with what a tank would directly need.

Deity it doesn't matter what my name is, that's disrespectful as heck like me coming in here saying your name is Deity so you must think you know everything or better then everyone, it's a catchy name nothing more or less...
"Tanks already have things to do. And while this wouldn’t change what they are doing. It just adds another requirement that this dps stacking happy community will ask for an already rare role. And not everyone has active leagues that will hand all roles readily available. Some players rely on LFG to make groups or join groups."
This ally doesn't change a single thing about what tanks are doing, much less what a dps is doing.
Bro you need to sit down. Proxy made a point but nothing you saying here makes sense.
A defense debuff doesn’t directly help the tanks do their primary role. It just helps the dps. Dps that are already prone to chasing scoreboards over following mechanics. A damage debuff falls in line more with what a tank would directly need.[/quote]
A Def debuff directly helps the group itself not the dps, it serves no self gain for a dps.
As another pointed at aint no groups about to out cast the rarest role on the game because they don't have this ally. You can build more of a case that this Ally helps tanks soloing with the chance to do more damage for themselves.

I can confirm it doesn't. Which does limit the dps aspect of this ally by a lot not worth it currently it's not worth in it's state. It's great for opening burst in setting up your dots but after that.....

A Def debuff directly helps the group itself not the dps, it serves no self gain for a dps.
As another pointed at aint no groups about to out cast the rarest role on the game because they don't have this ally. You can build more of a case that this Ally helps tanks soloing with the chance to do more damage for themselves. [/quote]
The community is very dps stack heavy. A lot of content can be made easier with adding a second healer or slowing down burn to do mechanics. But so many want to ignore mechanics in order to do more damage. This is the mindset of this community.

Look at the alert. It’s easy with a tank and healer but now players want 3 dps and 1 tank. So many want to ignore trolls in the alert even thou one could help. If a group sees a tank with a def debuff ally and one without it they would choose the one that can increase the dps burn. Eventually they will make this a requirement. This is the community mindset.

The community is very dps stack heavy. A lot of content can be made easier with adding a second healer or slowing down burn to do mechanics. But so many want to ignore mechanics in order to do more damage. This is the mindset of this community.

Look at the alert. It’s easy with a tank and healer but now players want 3 dps and 1 tank. So many want to ignore trolls in the alert even thou one could help. If a group sees a tank with a def debuff ally and one without it they would choose the one that can increase the dps burn. Eventually they will make this a requirement. This is the community mindset.[/quote]

I see what your trying to put across I blame the game itself for a lot of it, I do run the alert w/o a healer it doesn't make sense to sadly cause most good tanks can survive without one in that alert and its faster to run with dps now I would prefer to run 2 dps with a buff troll cause they make QoL better.

Could some one please post some info on the nature passive.

Feedback
The rate at which you can build Might and Precision is very impressive with Empowering Spores. Here is a demonstration with just one rotation:


153154 to 255858 Might with only Poison Ivy equipped and no other Mods/Allies/Artifacts.

Some test results with as little iconic/movement-mode abilities as possible.

I used Strat, Trans and Ebon for this. BwL and Poison Ivy. All maxed.
Never cancelling Ebon Stacks.

Base might: 229300

I'm all for nature to finally get some love. they have all ready cut it to its knees multiple times because of EOG. even with this they will still struggle in hallways and will have to do all their catching up on boss fights

I agree we should have multiple for each role first before they start on the power specifics..
but I rarely get what I want and if anyone disserves some love it has to be nature as i stated above

Some test results with the basic nature might meta loadout pretty much anyone uses for single target.

I used Strat, Trans and Quislet for this, Black Adam and Poison Ivy. All maxed.
Black Adam and Quislet to get as much SC back during actual content.

Base might: 229300

I used 3 dots in human form, then transforming and keeping the stacks up.
All of these results are after the Gorilla formchange buff was over.

I just applied the same as in the post above to AoE and only swapped heat vision for voracious plants.

Everything else is the same.
Looks broken at first, but taking into account that most adds wont survive the 1st 10 second parser anyway, its fine.

Again, all of these don't show the dmg with the form-change dmg buff.

IMO, it's actually very good, the buffs are decent and have good uptime (duration can go to 20s with 30s cooldown). What makes is good is how easy you can get stacks, you don't have to attack target(s) to build stacks, as long as that target take damage while under Empowering Spores, whenever from you or group members, you have a chace to get one stack. So in a boss fight, it's possible to get max stack right away with 8 players attacking boss.

I don’t think this is too overpowered at all. Nature doesn’t get to sit and spam sc to do massive damage like Electric Circuit Breaker, Ice Golem, Gadgets and 5 supercharges etc. once you apply your poison PI and go into gorilla which the damage buff only lasts for 15 seconds, you stay there until you feel it time to return to normal and reapply PI. So this is fine in my opinion. Nature has been one of the worst DPS powers for a while. Along with a few other powers that could do with specific PI activated allies to give a personal buff like water, quantum, atomic etc. I like it.

Considering this is probably the closest we’ll ever get to some power balance now… this is fine, I guess. If allies is what it’s going to take to give shine to lesser dps powers, then so be it.

Yeah that's definitely annoying.
This makes it not really useful for boss fights since usually you are casting dots then form changing and using harvest to refresh poison.
I guess it has some potential with add waves in hallways since but even then things die pretty fast anyway.

Personally I would prefer harvest refreshing poison being able to apply it, even if that meant a reduction in the buff.
Nature already has to deal with enough quirks with keeping dots up during boss fights.
I support the EOG nerf but that's also going to make nature even more annoying since losing DOTs and having to re-enter gorilla becomes that much more of a problem.

Honestly I really wish nature had some kind of multi step power that could apply the three dots instead of having to use three separate powers that just eat up loadout space. Would solve so many issues with the power needing multiple loadouts / a form change to function well.

I just wanted to thank you for these changes, the damage debuff makes all the difference to the tank actually spending the resources to level this thing.

Thanks.

After Test-Server Hotfix May 2, 2023
"Reduced Empowering Spores' Empowering Bloom buff from 4% Might and 2% Precision to 2% Might and 1% Precision"

Might AOE loadout (copied from Strichcode, except for not leaving Gorilla form to not lose finisher aoe) 60s


Precision AOE Brawling, 60s



The reduction of 50% is huge, however it seems ok for precision (By using superspeed and iconic cancel/glitching)
Might obviously beeing lower, but we´ve the remaining supercharge in the might build, which will do big damage due to the might boost which wasn´t been used here. (Could be exchanged with an Iconic Supercharge, sadly Nature doesnt has another direct damage sc)

I mean, if there is no balance between the powers themself and might or precision, we obviously won´t be able to balance this ally. It got the right stats (might double of prec)

Also for precision it can be meta material since ~400k/s is average on 60s (requires perfect clipping and no delay to server)
Might could get up to ~340k/s with pheromone bloom (2500 iconic supercharge)

I personaly would have said give 3% might stacks and 1% precision, however that would unbalance the whole ~2/1 system wide ratio.

Edit: I have forgotten the necklace mod for might, should go up to ~330k/s, will check later or strichcode share his results after this hotfix.

yea this seems very counter productive Nature has so much potential, it plays much like summoner on ffx14 a dot based class even has a power like Roar which consume dots, roar imo should work in a matter where each roar consumes one dot instead of all of them.
But that still isn't a fix to the fact the forms are SC in which to play the powerset properly you have to limit the dots in the forms to fit more useful powers in.

Comparison pre and post nerf.

ST without formchange SC:




ST with Meta loadout:




AoE with Meta loadout:



Top image is always pre-nerf. I changed nothing in my set-up or rotations.

Considering that group members can also proc ivy's buff for me, cutting the time for the stat buildup, this is still pretty good. Appears to be in line with my Gadgets might dps on live server with the same stats.

What is your base prec? I cant even get close to your AoE prec results. Im sitting at an average of 300k/sec.

Prec ST results:



My might stat is fairly low due to missing skillpoints and due to server lag there is still room for improvement.
On live server i may be able to hit an average of 162k/sec.