Test Discussion Ally: Poison Ivy

Change it to where harvest procs the spores, as other people in the thread have mentioned, your base form is mainly for your DoT spread while the meat of the damage comes from your form change. It’s a little counterintuitive to be running serpent instead of voracious in gorilla for example with the way nature is played. It’s a bit of a dealbreaker if Harvest can’t proc it imo.

Precision Stats:

Loadout AOE:

Been able to get a smoother clipping rotation today (had delay to test-server yesterday) All first 3 abilitys are there for canceling, supercharge generator will be clipped with weapon buff (doesn´t need to be before due to allys cooldown, so 12s + 12s + 12s, that way we roughly get the right duration for allys buff 36s (doing anything before would cause damage loss, we also don´t have to build up full stacks, it would also mean damage loss due to not beeing able to clip)

Might Stats:


Strichcode Might AOE: (Without form change and the use of Neo Venom boost instead)


Warp Might AOE: (Changed to burst abilitys to make more use of the boost, no form change, neo-venom boost instead)

All mods etc. now been for the right type of damage dealer. Also please show 60s parser, that way we get a more realistic view of what damage will be archived average.

I still dont get how 400k/sec average is possible, given my parse never exceeded 320k/sec and my base stats not being *that* far off but i'll keep trying.

Also, i did 10sec parser on purpose to show ivy's passive buff procs more clearly.

Can you do some ST Prec parser aswell? Just interested how high those parsers can get, given my AoE is garbage compared to yours.

Looking at the numbers, its not needed. Taking the upcoming EoG nerf into account, you actually want the sc generator in the formchange or else you'll be very unhappy a lot more often than now.

Those numbers are ideal conditions in actual combat you need harvest to refresh this. Your not taking into account natures slow start up time. If this remains how it is then nature still is in a horrible spot.

Yes, but when it comes to AoE/adds, it doesnt really matter how strong this ally is. For ST, you have more than enough time to compensate the lost dmg with dots through a blocking phase for example.

A fight with immune phases, its still the worst power. Like TTe 1st boss for example.

Major issue:

RTX and I teamed up to test the ally a bit further and it appears that the effect Empowering Spores overwrites itself.
Whoever starts the 1st poison PI gets the buff and gets all hits from group members taken into account.

When another player does the Pi as well, the buff animation shows, but no buff is gained. Not from any other player in the group nor your own dmg.

The Empowering Spores Passive needs to be able to get activated on Harvest refresh. It’s otherwise not going to do much for nature dps wise. Even taking into account having no gem spam (which is not as paramount for nature as other powers anyway) replacing a move for atleast one PI move such as serpent call in gorilla form where the bulk of nature dps comes from, overtime leads to a dps loss. Ivy’s passive would activate on only 1 PI. Having another ally and a stronger move such as zip-tie is more beneficial in the LONG term where it matters. Putting in all 3 PI moves in gorilla is a pure dps loss even with the passive.

As it stands, with the already cut in half dps buff and not activating on Harvest, this is not worth 3k SM/ $20 and 300k ally favor.

Yea unless this refreshes on Harvest this isn't a good buy if you are solely a might nature dps. Going to be a hard pass for me. It really shows how far away nature is from how all signs show it's meant to be played. forms were turned into SC now a ally comes that promotes basically using poisons in a rotation for a powerset that is meant to have a built in refresh in it's tool kit.. It really doesn't give players a very hard choice to make between between Electricity and Nature when they both do the same exact thing but one is way more efficient.
This doesn't make much sense asking a player to drop any of Bwl, Shazam, Aquaman allies for one that completely breaks how the powerset plays.

I hope they can fix this but we haven't had any update from the devys yet I prey they can because Nature DPS needs all the right support it can get lol.

I think something needs to be clarified due to some comments probably misunderstanding the Empowering Spores passive.
I also read it wrong and only thought about it after a leaguemate pointed it out.

Empowering spores gets activated with any Poison PI. So either Serpent Call, Vine lash or Briar can activate this passive effect.
After activation, ANY damage going onto the target with said PI has a 20% chance of giving you a stack of x% might and x% Prec.
That includes dots, any ability damage, weapon hits, and most likely pets/henchmen aswell (I didnt test that specifically).

A stack can also be activated by anyone in your group.

That means if you use just one of those abilities, you get 20 stacks within one or two seconds when you are in a raid for example without even doing anything yourself besides the initial ability.

I hope that helps regarding the concerns about harvest not reapplying the passive after 30 seconds.

I'm all in favor of excluding DPS that try to force others to run things to cater to them. if we all would adopt this mind set we can nip this behavior in the bud and allow things to be added with out forcing everyone to just have ability's that only benefit them. its a community problem and only players can solve it heck tanks could solve it real quick just stop running in those runs and the rest of the community will have to fall in line because we need our tanks

I think the biggest issue people are having with the passive is how it seems to work against how the power set works itself. This passive does look rather clunky in actual play.

AoE is normally done in hallways and ST on bosses.

In hallways this will set the empowered PI on a target. Hitting said enemy with the PI gives you increased stats. However that PI can not be reapplied for another 30 seconds. On top of that, the buff only lasts for 5 seconds. Most hallways adds, even in elite, will only stay alive for a few seconds. Let’s be generous and say 8 seconds. So if you get lucky and refresh the stacks on the 8th second than it would only last for 13 seconds and you’d have to wait a couple of hallway add groups before you can regain these stacks over. So on hallways it really looses value.

In ST situations an effective nature boss loadout will store all 3 poisons in 1 loadout and have their actual rotational abilities in another. And players would then use harvest to refresh the poisons without going back into the first loadout. This passive basically makes the player need to go back into this primary loadout to reapply the buff. It’s essentially marking the players go against his natures kit wants to be played. In fact it’s actually asking the player to forgot the other 2 poisons and harvest and play nature like other powers.



I think a better way for this artifact to work is to remove the empowered PI and make it so that when the player attacks an enemy with poison set up by the user the user then gains the stacks. This would play more in line with how the power set naturally plays and allows the player to utilize it in hallways. Now, this would mean that the stack amount or values would need to be changed to compensate for the easier use of the ally. But it would make it play better.

as far as the harvest issue. they should remove the supercharge aspect from the form changes again possibly leave gorillas that ones debatable. With the rework to eog perhaps that will be another change nature can receive that would make the setup of this artifact less of an issue
or they could just simply add harvest and thorn into it

Fair point, although you get 20 stacks within 2seconds most likely everytime its up. The downtime is not great for hallways, thats true, but hallways go against the nature of nature anyway. (pun intended)
On top of that, the CD of 30 seconds starts with the activation of the effect, not when the buff ran out, meaning you only have a 10 second downtime if you apply new poison PI's frequently, or 13 seconds if you only use one Poison PI (one PI lasts 12 sec +5sec buff duration = 17sec Buff duration and 13 sec downtime)

If you take a look at my ST parser replys on this thread you can see me still using harvest in gorilla form. Granted, you lose a bit damage by not being able to use voracious plants or zip-tie attack, but you make up for that by not needing to exit gorilla form as often.
Also, having the SC generator in gorilla helps you maintaining enough SC once EoG nerf happened, since nothing is worse than nature without being able to enter gorilla form with that loadout.

This is literally how it currently works unless im misunderstanding what you said there.

Exactly everything you said in this is inline with the issues. Nature dps is a slow set up powersets that revolves around setting up your dots and then “using a SC to get into a form” once inside the form we rely on harvest to get those dots we applied to keep going. Most bosses have phases where the dots can’t be kept up and if we don’t have a SC up we’re pretty much boned.
This artifact could have helped with the damage outside of said forms by allowing us to maintain a decent amount of damage outside of said forms in Hall Ways and and Boss fights.
The entire Ally falls outside of the best option of play style we have for us as Nature.
No Nature dps will recommend or advise you to randomly reapply poisons when we have a power that does it for you. Like I mentioned earlier if we have to manually reapply a dot then you make as well go a more effective dot based power in Electric which can set up their damage in Hall Ways and Bosses much faster without the need for a Super Charge.

The issue is this Ally does not merit any use what so ever in replacing Bwl or Shazzam your not accounting for the fact I can land a 200-400k crit in the same amount of time with almost any other powersets with one power in the same time that I’m doing a random serpent call to reapply empowering spores. That doesn’t add up at all and any nature dps considering this ally is going to be disappointed in combat.

How is ~40% might every 30 seconds for ~20seconds not better than 6% might every 90 seconds for 30 seconds?
Im confused.

Well first of all, i believe many people here misunderstood that this thread is not about rebalancing nature.

Also, who said that you will have to build up dots? Which other powerset makes use of dots these days? Ice, Fire, Rage even Munition etc. gets played with atleast 1-2 Iconic Abilitys, which are burst attacks.

Another thing is, that there is a reason why you´re able to stay in Gorilla form change, you don´t have/should leave it! That way you can generate for another supercharge instead, as i´ve shown in screenshot.

In general this can be seen as "additional" nature explicit stat boost, once you have popped 1 poison ability (supercharge generator, would be best choice) each damage hit you do, can grant you a stack.

In terms of that principle, we obviously found the new precision meta, since there is no other powerset where you could get that additional boost "for free". The abilitys/rotations for precision are nearly the same for every powerset.

Might however you will have to play similar to Ice, with Iconic burst. I mean excuse me, but i´ve shown a screenshot of 380k/s aoe 60s average, that includes the downtime of poison ivy´s passive. And again, you make the same use of Iconics as you would for Ice and that´s pretty strong on adds, if you then even get 1 additional stat buff stack, you´re already doing more damage as you would with Ice.

Therefore i don´t understand all the concerns, again this is not about rebalancing nature. For a short moment, use common sense, who in the world would build dots on enemys which getting killed within seconds?! And you don´t have to, just clip the supercharge generator with soder and start your burst, there are many possible ways where it will be additional and not a loss. And to be fair, if you would have 20 stacks all the time, then even 2% might would outdamage any other powerset. Remember the math behind percentual grow. On 200.000 might 2% on 20 stacks are 40.000 might additional, for 300.000 might its 60.000. Therefore you gain growing exclusive stat buffs, now you can/should clip the weapon tap before each burst, cause prec will also grow that way. Again it´s nature exclusive and will at some point in future outdamage any other powerset, if they don´t get something similar.

It’s not about rebalancing nature at all I didn’t point to that I’m pointing to the fact their is no reason a nature dps should choose this ally over Shazam or BWL. Cause it lacks any synergy with how mature as a powerset works.