I love DCUO so can you remove the stat clamp already?

To be completely fair (and probably a bit blunt), if high CR/endgame players are still struggling with those raids even with the boosts and benefits that are given to clamped players, that may not be as much of an indictment of the clamp as it is of the ability of the players.

This game has always placed a greater emphasis on how well a player can play their character, due in large part to the more active combat system. Some of that is what you put on your character (Artifacts, Allies, loadouts, weapon choice, etc.) but being able to actually play that character matters. It's not like other games where your stats/gear/level will save you even if you stand there and do nothing.

Whether or not it seems fair, if an endgame player is actually struggling with clamped/older content then their ability to play their character will likely come into question, largely because of how much that matters in this game.

First I would like to say I will recognize there is a problem with power creep. It makes me so mad that my stats I worked for have to be nerfed in older content but that I still have everything I worked for in EG. With that out of the way:

If progression paradigm is going to be focused on a linear scale for EEG and a combined vertical / linear scale in EG, who are players to see that their progression is worthwhile? How are players supposed to “Feel more powerful” as we were promised before the Stat Clamp was initiated? I have stated before I do not feel more powerful. A micro-progression based off of “full stat piercing” isn’t something that I can understand. What is the stat piercing? What is the stat? Is it the max value of the Art / Aug? Is it still a percentage?

I just want what I have worked for in this game to mean something, to matter. End Game gives me this satisfaction. I do feel more powerful when I go back to Flashpoint or Doomed Washington D.C. It is a different feeling for EEG Content. I am sorry I do not have any detailed metrics or analytic bar graphs to demonstrate or prove what I am saying. It is like driving your car and one day you realize something just doesn’t feel right with it. I take it to garage to have them give it a look. I am not required to present to them the full diagnostic that I performed on it to justify their time to examine my car for them to determine what is amiss.

I just want what I have worked for to matter.

^THIS^

I understand your point, in GW2 this problem does not exist at this point because the final armors are only the exotic, ascended and legendary. These armors are valid for any game mode, raids, open world etc.
The only difference is in the fractals. There you need to charge your ascended or legendary armor with "agony resistance" so that the agony in the more advanced fractals doesn't kill you (The agony is like a debuff that kill´s you slowly or faster depending of the lvl of the fractal)

The problem here is this game constantly deletes our progress, making us, episode after episode, farm our armor again, that generates the power creep that we have here (dragon ball Z syndrome as I like to call it)

To fix this the dev´s would need to remade the system of armors in order to keep new content challenging without destroy our advance and for a game of this age, that is very hard.
A lot of games have power creep and is a problem,
i frankly dont see the solution to this without a clamp, at least in that way we can keep runing old content without being allmighty gods capable of destroying bosses only watching them.

Yeah but this whole situation is hard to solve in my opinion, like i said, if they remove the clamp what´s the point of lvl up ally´s and artifact´s to do EEG content?

But I out leveled the tier, I became stronger like a super, shouldn’t that be taken into consideration?

You´re right, but the problem i see here is... let me see how i can explain this, my english is not the best and sometimes i say things wrong...

DCUO don't have a rich reward system or a strong economy like other games, sure we have thing´s hard to get, like the ultraman cape or the dark robin´s henchmen, but without the clamp a lot of people would have access to those in the long run (like speedhacker´s do, but i digress xD) So one way to keep the economy "functional" is using the clamp, there is no way to keep that in balance with all powerfull characters being able to get those thing´s and the hardest feats´s (Unless they add an option to made all instances without clamp but in those you would not be able to get feat´s and top items and i believe people will not like that)

Taking back what I said, without good reward´s the only thing they can give us is better armor (and some fancy and cosmetic´s) Without that system based in farming reputation what motivation you have to do elite content? Besides the pride to tell people you can finish elite
People do it to get the best armor in game (best until the next episodes arrives) And that is our problem.

Is valid hoping all your hard work don't be loss with the launch of every episode, but like i said, i dont see a solution to this, unless they remade reward´s and armor system´s.

I mean, power creep is single-handedly the strongest argument for stat clamping, I will say that.

Just seeing the words "power creep" made me go back and watch this video from 10 years ago:



Seems like artifacts and allies were an attempt at some 'incomparables', even if they really are actually quite comparable. Seems like stat clamping is the "artificially keep it in check" solution @ 5:58 in the video. Food for thought I guess.

As a follow-up to that, I think the real concern is 'feeling' stronger in old content. The devs need to figure out how to do that. Hell, even if they had our REAL CR displayed but artificially 'dumbed us down' in the background might be enough placebo for us, idk. It'd allow a quick scan to see who is at end-game vs. who is brand new as well, so you can see what type of group you're dealing with.

I think a big part of the problem is that when you enter into an old instance, it's so obfuscated on what type of group is actually in there, because basically all of the CRs are the same (within a what, +15 CR window?). It's why some groups seem to go so 'smooth' vs the full-blown disasters. It's not until after you've looked them all up on DCUOBot, that you realize you had a group comprised full of end-game players vs. a group full of noobzorbs who were just barely above level.

I also think the devs should look at a 'scaling' +CR for old content, based on your current CR, that they would subsequently adjust as new episodes got added on. I.E. - make 'stronger' players actually BE stronger (based on gear) in the older content, on a sliding scale (it could go by tier) but have it 'scale' as the episodes went on so that it's not 'game breaking'. Hard to explain here without visuals, maybe I'll whip something up later.

Exactly right, I like all of your suggestions. This is how civil dialogue looks with a free exchanging of ideas. Thank you Virality & GermanM.

If the clamp was whatever the difference is between current max endgame and Flashpoint (in on duty content)..so basically when Flashpoint goes into EEG you have the same gear stats you have at max EG right now and full stats from whatever SP you have allocated, etc...and that formula was applied throughout the game..and open worlds were unclamped (the missions are loot locked and many of them are ghost towns)..then I think this discussion would be over..I would certainly think about coming back..

But as it stands right now, I've dropped my sub and haven't played in months..saw the new seasonal came out..couldn't even bring myself to log in

I'd have some concerns that showing the player's actual CR might lead to folks abandoning group content runs even more, or worse restart or reinforce some of the worst elitist tendencies out there.

As for scaling, I don't think that would be the answer. You've got players out there that want the old "curbstomp" days back who wouldn't be satisfied with anything less, and the devs have said that the current levels in EEG are about where they want them to be. That's not to say there isn't still room for improvement, but I don't see the devs budging too much more on how strong they're going to let us be in clamped content.

You can make yourself a good idea of a player CR watching the artifact´s used and their lvl, there is no need to see the CR. But yeah, thing´s will be more toxic for new players showing that.

OK, but we're already seeing people abandoning group runs now, as it is. We already see kicks happening after 1 wipe, as it is. There is nothing stopping individuals from inspecting to see what kind of CR or arti's that someone is working with. Showing actual CR would either give people some confidence ("OK sweet, willflynne is in here, he's 378 CR, he's probably good, let's do this") or some lack of confidence ("Ah crap, this whole group is like 88 CR, let's see how it goes, I'm probably gonna have to do some explaining"). Elitist tendencies don't get magically wiped away or turned on just because CR isn't or is displayed. But at least you'd get some sort of sense of what you're in for. Just imho - at least you'd being 'showing up' with some sort of identity as to who you are or what you've achieved thus far.

Yeah, I have heard that any increase in the CR scaling would cause the game to 'break' again, which makes me think the whole system was kinda set up wrong in the first place, but I'm not a coder. I wonder if they could somehow 'bake in' at least some marginal increase into stat piercing based on CR, but idk.

I just think that, with the current levels of elitism that take place already, anything that might reinforce or encourage that kind of behavior should be avoided. It can be bad enough as is, why put in something that could or would make it worse?

I'm not really that concerned about the level of my ally as I am the level of my actual character.

The "logic" of the game also isn't my main priority....

Sure, in a way it makes sense as a game, because we know that Oan science cells is a lower tier alert.

It should be easier to do now. It should only be a challenge when it is/was relevant to your character's level.



Beating Grodd in the first duo was a different experience from fighting him in the Stryker Island alert..... and later raids.

It's understood that lower-level villains (or heroes) are weaker than their upper level counterparts.

Visual CR has been somewhat of a curse since they introduced it like 9 years ago. Players will always find a way to exclude. Before visual CR, "Come to HQ for inspection." Before census, "What's your skill points?" Now, "What's your artifacts and level?" These all mean nothing other than time and a lot of cases, money. You can still be a player that struggles with content, be it physical or psychological, you can have problems in content. When you zone into a clamped instance and it shows 88CR, that tells me the player is being clamped down. If it's any lower than that, they are at level. So maybe we should strategize and communicate. Most players don't or impatient. Of course there is also the player that runs ahead and makes it even harder for the newer players.

In the end, exclusions will happen. More knowledge just lets them do it more often.

Oh, I was around and asked Charon about that. In elite content, full piercing happens, because you don't get the EEG buff like you do in regular. So they had to limit how much piercing there is in regular, because you were already being buffed just being in the clamp.

The instances that are being abandoned are because of the instance, not because of the clamp. Like Metal 1's alert or Thorne of the Dead. The mechanics are just too much for the average or new player. They were even toned down significantly. But then you also have instances like TD or a Starro alert, that things just melt by looking at it. Where most of the problems you could have is getting lost or the adds swarm you. Honestly, the clamp isn't the problem, it's the disparity of content.

The things you want cannot happen unless they remade the whole system and i dont see that happening.

I generally think that transparency is a good thing, that's where we probably agree to disagree.

Yeah, but when lead´s to toxicity is not so good. And there are many examples of that in real life.