Skill points are a pain!

Pretty simple way to fix this issue would be to make say all 5 + year old feats available for purchase with RB, also, everytime a new dlc pops the previous 4,5 year old feats that just became 5 year old adults should join the bandwagon.

What I find funny is that game has been out for 10 years and there are several players with 100-200 skill points. I only find one here or there that are 500+. This tells me (us) that the game does not retain long-term players. For those that have 500+, they been playing since 2012-14 or so. Those with 100 ish, less than a year. (and you wonder why players can't troll or block or pickups)

Should there be a way to buy skill points? Hmm, yes, but it should be in a way that prevents you from buying all of the feats. Like lets say we are at T11 (when it comes out) and you are new to the game and there is 12 tiers worth of stuff. What if you could buy the feats from the general stuff, and tiers 1-5? There could be a backwards wall limit that no feats can be purchased x-amount of content ago. This way you would still have plenty of skill points from all that stuff and you wouldn't have to go too far back to grind some stuff out.

I believe that would be a middle ground area as you can buy some, but not all.

Bad idea, because that simply means anyone joining later in time has to pay more then the previous person did.

If you are only finding a few at 500+, you aren't looking that hard. Most people nowadays seem to have over 300, which is the point where MOST players can be comfortable. 400 is better as it will allow you to max your chosen skill attribute, use a WM (if desired) and sprinkle around some SP in another skill or iconics, yet I still see many people at 500+ and not ALL of them have been around since 2012...some came in within the last 2 years. This isn't to stay you couldn't function at 100 or 150 as long as you know the game and are willing to beef up your artis to 120 at least.

How about this? Lets say they sell SP from eps 1-5 BUT only the ones that could be garnered with almost no effort. Speed runs, exploration...things of that ilk. Maybe the style feats for the tier or drop gear you'd get if you ran 10-20 times anyway, however NOT the upper 'grindy feats. Give away 1-250 CC bounties, but not the 500. Give away the wake/no wake feat in Nexus, but NOT the artifact finder. Give away the 'high beams' feat in BIA, but not the one for fighting each of the iconics. Give the Prime and Courthouse feats in 'Battle for Earth' but not the 250 bottle duos(that's just 1 measly feat after all). This would get you a LOT of sp, but not the ones most people who want to pay for feats want. The difference between the 2 might only be 20-25 SP, but I'd bet the proposal would go over like a lead balloon. Why? Because those are the feats people want but don't want to put the time in or effort in on. They are easily attainable with minimal effort or a handful of quick runs and most people know it.

The issue is with selling SP, and this is something MOST people won't admit to, is it isn't' the difference between 100-300 SP they are looking for...its those 50 or so SP that require the grind or just plain dumb luck+many, many runs to get done. This is why most of the proposers like to refer to letting them 'buy 100 SP' with no particular plan on how it would be purchased. I think because most people wanting this would love to be able to just 'buy' 100 SP and place them where they want, picking off the hardest of the feats. This is why the only way selling feats would ever work is a-la-carte and the super grindy ones would be priced very high....and it would be an incentive to DBG to add more super-grindy feats as they go. I'm not blaming them....it's just good business once the customer has established that's what they want to buy.

Perhaps if you spent more time, actually playing you'd have more SP.

You always complain when these types of threads come up, I'm saying this nicely but there's a reason you only have 150ish skill points, it's because you're barely even playing, but then keep asking for SP to be scrapped so that others don't have an advantage over you.

I understand your issue with selling SP and i very much am against selling SP, hell feat unlocking should'nt even be a paid option, just a QoL change for the betterment of the community. I get people want to grind out their feats for SP, but periodically feats will need to be granted, what happens when we get to 700 SP? Are we going to tell every newcomer to grind out 700sp worth of feats before jumping into endgame?

When WoW started getting to high in the levels (120) they increased the experienced gained to hep new players speed up the grind to max level.

Final Fantasy:XIV increased the experience gained and shortened up the story to help new players catch up to the current content quicker

DCUO: CR skip, with a degree of SP skip. Also gear from any tier you reside in will almost always give you a upgrade, thus pushing you up the tiers rapidly

These mmorpgs are doing these so new players arent getting left so far in the dust as these games continue to evolve, i get where you're coming from but feat granting has to happen on some degree so new players arnt expected to climb up a SP cliff, where for any veteran who spent 6+ years here, its a slight SP incline.

You get very few sp from “ just playing the game” maybe 250 tops from “ just playing “ by that i mean running the missions straight up, pvp, collecting styles and you dont really get any from exploring besides races. The rest is feat hunting.. which isn’t simply “ just playing “ ive ran every mission in dcuo why dont i have 600sp? Feat hunting is more like a job then “ just playing “ so i don’t understand why you guys keep saying “ just play the game” when you wue into a mission theres no pop up on the screen that says “ do this objective to get sp” that would be “ just playing” instead you have to scroll through 40 episodes watch it slowly scroll across your screen, backout and hunt the feat.. if you handed someone a remote and said “ just play the game” theyd gain very little sp by just going through the motions and beating the mission. You dont get many feats from just beating missions besides the hardknocks ones that most players should have. But i doubt they got them on purpose.

A lot of old stuff just happens by itself, especially when you're incredibly over powered. Notwithstanding, stop being so damn lazy, if you want SP then you should earn them, stop asking for an ability to open your wallet or get a hand out because you simply can't be bothered putting in the required effort.

Don't come in to a 10 year old game expecting to just be handed everything players have previously earned over years, you know the games 10 years old and you knew it before you started.

It doesn't really matter if you have to seek some of them out you act like that wasn't what the people did before you, newsflash they did and that's why they've been rewarded and you haven't, that's what happens when you can't be bothered, that's fine if you can't be bothered that's your choice, but the consequence is you don't get the SP, deal with it.

This game already goes to extreme lengths to cater to the entire spectrum of players including the super casual, there's times I even defend giving things to casuals, but there has to be a line somewhere; not to mention even as a casual you can have heaps of SP if you put in a bit of effort.

Which part of "massively multiplayer" is unclear?

Not that I don't understand your desire, nor am I closed-minded about proposed future changes, but it's also important to consider how unfair at least some longtime players might feel if they see what they worked so hard to get being earned far more easily. (Myself, I'll wait for specific proposals before I react.)

Changing things going forward is one thing and retroactively changing the way feat-earning works is entirely a different thing.

Another voice:

NO. Absolutely not. This is literally pay to win and what's the point of SP at all if all you have to do is lay down cash?

After I've spent nine years (though, honestly, I've slacked off on feats terribly in the last couple of years -- I have a ton of rai dfeats from the last eight or so DLCs I need to work on) working hard for any and every feat, I'm open-minded about proposals for change in future, but straight-out pay-to-win? There would literally be zero challenge left in the game for me.

Some players will also always ask to get short-cuts to rewards that otherwise take time and effort and possibly cooperation.

This tells me you never look at the census. It is indisputable fact that hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands, of players have over 500+

The first eight pages of results of fourteen-players-per-page doesn't even begin to cover all the players who currently have 6!3, let alone "only" 612 or fewer.

See for yourself.

Even if I limit the census to, say, only US PC/PS Heros, over one hundred players have SP over 609. Plenty of leagues have averages over 500+ SP. The top 50 leagues measured by average SP average over 413 SP and those are leagues mostly between one hundred and three hundred players. Fact. Solution to your problem: find and join one.

The idea that there are hardly any high SP players out there is simply provably, demonstrably, false.

The person who wrote that, if I'm not mistaken, hasn't been with the company since not long after writing that. (My apologies if I have this wrong.)

As a rule, ideas one person brings to a development team simply may or may not wind up catching on with their successors. Probably more often than not the new person has new ideas (and will get more credit for proposing successful new ideas than merely adopting an old idea) and old stuff falls by the wayside and is forgotten.

I'm not saying that's remotely necessarily the case in this context, but realistically, it's not reasonable to expect game developers to stick to plans voiced by someone not with the company for years. Ideas more than a year out should in general be regarded as llittle more than vaporware, no matter how great the idea may be.

None of which is to say that alternative paths to SP is inherently any kind of bad idea. I'm just saying that the fact that a dev several years ago said something isn't terribly meaningful years and years (say, five) later.

"I'm more fiscally important to the game than those other players" is an argument that, at best, requires hard numbers and proof.

Prove your case with cite-able facts, I suggest. Or drop any rhetoric that goes further than "it may be the case," if you wish to be taken seriously.

Maybe if feat hunting wasnt so boring to me, id rather do something else before i sit there and bore myself to death with a uninspired feat system. Its not fun proxy. The reason why i want to uncouple it from stat gains, is so new players wont be alienated out of content for starting 9 years later... If the devs said their cr should keep up with their SP and the community takes it as gospel (well at least the hardcore do) are they expected to sit there and refrain from running endgame content until they got 300 SP? Id say no, and if it were up to me, SP would be style/title/pet/housing item rewards and that'll weed out who's doing the feats for simply the stat gains and who truly enjoys the achievement system.

To be honest a feat system in this format should not exist, its gives veterans a default leg up, for just being there earlier, some players get selected for some runs based on SP, so if you dont like the achievement system, well thats going to count against you for a "optional" facet of the game

During my playtime in WoW i enjoyed the achievement system, i got mounts, tabards, titles, aesthetic gear and pets for doing achievements, not all the achievements i did because they rewarded, but because they were innately enjoyable on their own


In DCUO i dont find the feats fun to do, should i sit there and grind out aspects of a game i don't enjoy, when the objective is to have fun? One of the most fun things i got to do for an achievement, is go outside an opposite factions major city and try to get certain food items on your plate before the players start coming out to kill you, (ive had to fight for my seat at the table (literally) to get a title i never used). But if i were asked would i ever want to do it again? Id say HELL YEA!!!



The difference for me is, i enjoyed WoWs achievement system and it didn't give me any stat benefit and i loved participating in it. I did'nt get anything for gaining achievement points but i enjoyed achievement hunting.

In DCUO i find the feat system boring because the feats themselves arnt enjoyable to do for me, and no reward is going to change that

https://***********.com/2020/02/20/massively-overthinking-hardcore-gamers-mmo-health/

https://www.referralcandy.com/blog/world-of-warcraft-marketing-strategy/

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1089131-casual-vs-vet-difficulty-in-endgame-missions/

https://www.limelight.com/resources/white-paper/state-of-online-gaming-2019/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/casual-gaming-in-2020-150021233.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.highsnobiety.com/p/casual-gamer-ruining-gaming/?format=amp

While none of these are from dcuo, because well if i pulled from our forums itd be biased.. and also the data isnt published. Here is a collection of forum post, blogs and articles that come up by simply googling “ who is more important in the gaming industry veterans or casuals” .. if you check out forums from other games players from day 1 also have a superiority complex, but unlike dcuo their devs dont stoke their egos. The word is gatekeeping. No one is asking to instantly buy up to 600sp. The narrative in this thread is a bundle that scoops together feats from dead dlcs.

The wow article says that world of warcraft is the most casual friendly mmo .. according to this forums its the least casual friendly and the most true grindy of grindy mmo ... article also says its the most popular, i wonder why? Besides advertising.

A friend of mines dad had a family restaurant back in the day that he inherited from his father. He saw that once he started modernizing and playing more hip music more kids came in, it went from being a old mans bar to almost like a night club. His fathers main loyal customer brought up their concerns and threatened that if he kept in this direction theyd quit coming. He did continue to modernize. Grew so popular he was able to open up a second restaurant. He drives a tesla now n is talking about the new hummer, lives in a much large house then his dad and is branching into construction, i doubt he’d be living that life if he listened to some old heads who cried theyd leave if he changed things up..

Maybe we could get things like new powers if they could gain more popularity and people spent the money for new tech ( and drop the switch) or whatever they claim they can’t afford. They need more people to spend money, it doesn’t have to be you. Right now they advertise for the game, a new player installs and sees youtube videos where the dudes have 570 sp , they go look at their feats ( if they can find it) que up and sit in batcave 1 que for 30 mins... heck new players probably only play the event versions.. i would like more capable people in pug ques idk why you wouldn’t

Th crabs in the barrel mentality so many players have.

No wonder there’s such a divide between newer and eliti- I mean veteran players. I’m all for allowing newer players to be able to access feats from 10 year old content that literally no one runs. If it’s to help to keep more players around and help the community grow, why not.

TLDR; I subjectively find feats non-fun, I can't be bothered withe feats and therefore don't get the rewards, I get upset when other people can be bothered though and I see them being rewarded so please take away their rewards so we can all be the same, k thx.

respectfully that sums it up, right.

introducing the ability to solo queue content easily resolves any of this angst towards SP anyway, there would be no excuses then.

Im a vet but in a league by myself, so i pug a lot. To be honest i dont have a problem with granting feats from dead content either. Everyone is always using the join a league excuse i got news for you, MOST leagues suck and arent helpful. Then there are the i got mines so who cares about you people. Most of the feats except elites arent even hard but i cant count how many times someone has asked for a feat in a raid and in chat someone types "i just wanna finish this and go", which is fine i guess but the reason they really wanna just finish is cuz they think theyre saving time instead of taking another 3 minutes for a feat, and again these are simple feats.

Then theres also the this is not a feat run people who i lump in with the just wanna finish people. If its a feat like kill 666 demons i can understand not doing that, i wouldnt wanna camp in UM for that either, but people ask for the simple feats and they arent willing to do them, which is why artifacts trump skill points, theyre the great equalizer to a point. So if theyre paying to rank artifacts to make up for their skill points, why not pay for skill points? Theyre helping "keep the game alive" right whales and elitists?

Where did i type that proxy? Highlight it, because you keep trying to put those words in my mouth.. The problem is some of the veterans are trying to keep this game solely built for them and dont give a rats *** about the struggles of a new players to the game

DCUO has a retention problem, and their are a myriad of reason, and unfortunately attaching SP to achievements was a really bad idea for the long term health of the game, and leads to toxicity. Notice i never said id take away your achievement system, i simply prefer to strip it of its stats and replace them with titles/pets/trinkets/styles. So even if players are new, they wont get passed on for a raid because they didnt engage with the achievement system or because someone else has more because they were playing the game longer.

People should look at your gear and ability to run the content as a deciding factor if they chose you for a run, not if you decided to collect several sets of gear, do a daily several times, or kill 5,000 of a enemy type to say, thats why i prefer you to join over the next player