re: leaguemate banned

I'd also wanna make a ban appeal, it was my lil cousin trash talking not me.

Whether this is true or false he Should of had been more responsible for his visiting nephew. I don’t think you’ll get very far with this story but good luck

Sorry, no dice in my opinion. Speed hacking is a violation of TOS and should never be allowed. There should not be given any grace to anyone because he is a "good person". Why have rules if they are meant to be broken? If someone else has access to your account, your name is on it and you are responsible for the consequences. If he is such a "good player" yadda yadda, have him make a new account and start over. It's really not that hard. Man up, own your actions, be responsible, don't give someone else access to your account. There's no reason why a "speed hacker, money hacker, or any type of person who "cheats" in the game should be absolved of retribution. This act was done willingly, deliberately and under his account information regardless of what "story" he has. Whether he is a new player or a tenured one, there's a TOS for a reason. Sadly, the account owner agreed to the TOS and is therefore held accountable. I wish there was more action for all violators but this seems like the correct action and , as the Dev team has shown you the door...please walk through it.

Whatever the situation was, @Apollonia, this should not have been a public forum but PMs and tickets from your league to support the unban appeal process. By airing this out on a public forum, not only have you revealed much about your leaguemate's personal life (especially for those that know whom you're referring to), but now inciting a series of people mocking the unban appeal process. This should be more of a private matter.

I always like your posts here and you seem like a good person.

I don't want to be a jerk but is it possible your friend is not being honest with you? I understand wanting to take your friend's word for things but... this sounds incredibly far fetched. The idea that a nephew would download a speedhacking app, learn to use it then run content all while your friend is away, I don't know it just sounds hard to swallow

Here's a point I haven't seen being raised yet (but I also haven't read every single reply fully, attention span isn't that great today, sorry):

If that nephew played on your leaguemate's computer or console, "the logs" will not support any of it either, as they only see your leaguemate doing this.
And if you still advocate for an exception at that point, the devs would have to disregard their own rules & infrastructure and likely set an example that anyone can get away with anything, if the appeal is sufficiently sweet, and enough "good reputation" people vouch for them.


That's why you never! Ever! Share your accounts under any circumstances! Because everything happening after giving out the login details or letting someone play on your device, is on you.

Bruuuuh....this community is weird. A few days ago we had people screaming to ban speed hackers faster and never let them return, and now we've got people asking for a reverse because a family member did it and not the owner of the account. Imagine if every person that was banned blamed it on a relative and asked for forgiveness.

We've all considered the possibilities. We wouldn't have collectively posted our support for our friend, if we didn't believe his explanation of events.

"Experimenting" on his own account and risking 20ish characters, and years of progress is more implausible.

Well, yes, I realize that the reason his account is banned is because DI detected a problem on the account and actioned it. That's why we're having this conversation.

That's a misinterpretation of the rule. The rule is not prohibiting a family, for example, from all creating their own character in the game on their living room console. That rule refers to sharing login information with someone else. The objective is to prevent people from Netflix-ing their accounts across multiple people/users while only getting one source of revenue from one out of 4 or more people using it.

This is a cynical take. I was describing our friend to humanize him and let the devs know how well we know him and his character and that's how and why we can vouch for him. None of us would post in solidarity if he was just some random in an anonymous league we weren't sure about. There's only about 20 of us and we've all known each other for appx 10 years. Cheating would be noticed. and besides, it wouldn't give him an advantage when creating homage characters and you can't speedhack "cosplay" play habits.

This point here is the main reason I'm replying to you.

When we grow up we gain enough experience to realize that all of our relationships are contextual. School friends, work friends, team friends, ingame friends and so on. We use that context as an excuse to see those friends. For example, you might really like a friend on your soccer team and enjoy your time together... but maybe wouldn't hangout outside of that because you differ on politics or something. Some relationships are stronger and aren't tied to a specific context but most aren't that. But that doesn't mean you don't value those friendships even if they are compartmentalized.

The other reality of the digital age is that we're spread around the world and have different income levels. If it wasn't for location/economics I can easily imagine inviting most of these people into my real life. These people have been there during at least 3 boyfriends and the loss of my parents. 1 girl just moved from the US to Portugal last summer but I've told her on many occasions if she's ever in Montreal mia casa è la tua casa. Another lives in Brooklyn and she has an open invitation to visit anytime too -- and offered to beat up my ex a few times lol. One of the guys in our league is in Texas and we have great talks about people in general and we could easily be friends in person if we lived closer. And then there's *this* leaguemate who's like a fun beloved uncle or something to "many" of us but he's in Greece. Our leagueleader is from the same hometown as me; we've shared dessert and resto recommendations and I've even done freelance work for him. Last week 2 of our leaguemates drove an hour from southern Cali to an honorary leaguemate in northern Cali to pick up league t-shirts he had made for us all. That friend hosted the couple for a taco dinner night during the pickup. That couple drove home with a full stomach, a box of shirts and mailed them and surprise custom frisbees the wife made to everyone in the league.

What's my point? We're not some random anon league that functions like an LFG chat. Some of us are naturally closer to others but we're all actually friends in our league. We actually know each other. Even if our leaguemate did cheat he wouldn't have to lie to us about it. He could have just told us and we'd commiserate the loss of his account together without any drama. So we have no reason to doubt him.

How could anyone withe experience on the forums believe they'd drum up support from strangers here in *this* community. As I said, this post is an opportunity for some of his friends to share their thoughts on the situation and him; we really don't know what the Devs' process is, so I wrote the post with the assumption that the incident was detected by their anticheat tech and actioned automatically more or less. The goal is to get an actual human set of eyes on the issue in the hopes that the entirety of the situation is taken into consideration rather than just the "detected incident". I've been pretty clear about this from the start.

I have to reject the premise of this reply. There's no need for it to be a "private matter" as you suggest. We're carefully *not sharing* pertinent private details and none of it could be considered airing something in public. None of us doubts our friend's explanation at all and none of us is ashamed of him or this incident. It could have happened to any of us.

Several of us have contacted members of the Dev team directly, but I didn't feel comfortable with that as an option incase it was misconstrued somehow, so I made a public post for the rest of our friends who didn't feel comfortable directly contacting a Dev either.

Why hasn’t mepps closed this thread, this is clearly a drunk post

This is the thing I think really needs to be underscored. We aren't asking for a complete ignoring of what happened (and neither is the player) but rather to look at the full context (how long was it going on, what content did it involve, what was gained from it, etc) instead of just within the vacuum of "it set off this/these automated trigger/s" then decide if that warrants a lifetime ban over a timed suspension instead of knee-jerk jumping straight to the perma-ban solely because it fit some programming criteria.

Nope keep him perma banned . Werent you in the thread calling me wrong for not wanting anti cheat mechanisms? Maybe you weren’t but i feel like you were.

Thank gosh “ my kid was playing the game not me” isnt a good enough excuse to get a ban removed. Now you guys are forced to know someone impacted by your vocal outcry

Think most PC players do play legitimately and there are going to be few bad apples. If PS players given the same opportunity will also succumb to the same. But because of PS platform is more closed; it's much harder to do stuff like hacking.

What I want to convey to my fellow PC players is that, before cross platform, our PS population was fine. The PC player base benefited instantly after cross platform; shorter queues and more bodies for open world boss missions. But when you guys merged with us, you bought lot of this hacking shenanigans with you.

For once, playstation peasants gets to wag the shame shame finger at PC player base. Get your act together!

Regarding the said player; I hate to pass judgement, but based on the info. the B.S. meter is going off the charts. "The brighter the moon, the darker the shadows". People who cheat can be nice and polite; it's not mutually exclusive. Dishonest people span many age range; including those in their 40's and 50's. For someone to download hack tools for a very specific game sounds like, the 'nephew' is not a casual kid playing family's account.

You're attempting to argue precedent in your favour while ignoring the precedent that leniency here would set. The story being given is impossible to verify and therefore useless fluff. You can't accidentally have a speed hack running and this "but I was a good player and a good person" stuff doesn't change that. If the devs roll over for every sob story, this would be a blueprint for cheaters to test new hacks with impunity.

The only circumstance that would warrant overturning this kind of ban would be in the event of actions taken against a verifiably hacked account, and only by reverting the account to how it was before it was hacked. "Oops! My friend/relative/associate was conveniently playing my character and cheated, so it's not my fault and I should get a pass" should not fly.

The context is that the account wasn't hacked and that the account was speedhacking. End of story. How long was it going on? Doesn't matter... Even having a speedhack in the first place implies intent to cheat and it being verifiably active demonstrates actual cheating. Further, immediately banning cheaters is kinda how the system is supposed to work so "Shucks! You caught me before I could do any real damage!" is a bs copout. What content did it involve? Doesn't matter... Again, using it at all shows intent. Getting caught while testing it in secret to figure out how to best get away with it is no less of a big deal. What was gained from it? Doesn't. *******. Matter. The policy isn't "a lil behind the scenes cheating is okay as long as you don't perceive a subjective reward from it," it's "cheating is ******* cheating."

Don't cheat. Be aware that we are fully responsible for our accounts and the actions of anyone who we give access to them (which we aren't supposed to do). It's that simple. A cheat active on same account with same IP/location is impossible to argue. The best case here is for the op to argue for the implementation of multi-factor authentication to allow users to better protect their accounts.

Take the league mate/friend out of the decision making/discussion and then look at the whole thing. You're suggesting that someone who got banned for using speed hacking software, claims it wasn't them and was a family member, should be allowed to play the game after a timed suspension?

I mean, do you not see the potential issues that will cause for the company and the TOS/rules they put in place to begin with?

Remember that account sharing is also a bannable offense, no matter if its a son, a brother, nephew (as stated by Mepps before and very clear in the ToS) so one way or another he is wrong. Anyway, I think a perma ban for speed hacking on a long time account that probably was a paying member is too much, they normally do a alert one first, unless it wasnt the first tine the guy broke the ToS.

If it was the first time they probably will reconsider the permanent ban

That sucks for him, but yeah...it's tough to make exceptions for 1 but not the 100's of others who would likely have a similar story if asked. After all, almost everyone in jail says 'it was not my fault'...'I was framed'...'cops or judge had it out for me'. I'd guess a FEW might be lying. It's not for me to judge the validity of the story, so I'll take it at face value as true...but I'd also guess there are a few others who've caught a ban under similar circumstances.

Some mitigating/condemming factors would be where was the hack use (like did the kid go from round 1-30 in one sitting? or just power blast through otherwise beatable content? like a solo or OW bounties?) and if in a group setting, who was in the group? If with people who 'know' the normal player, I'd guess they should have known something was out of sorts. If some group of randos it would add more validity to the 'kid stole my account' aspect. You don't need to answer (and maybe shouldn't) but you might want to look at those factors.

If it was a SM blow through with people who regularly run with the guy....it doesn't look good, but again, it's not up to me or anyone else here without a Green name. I'd be very prepared for backlash here though, if the ban is removed either way.

This is the one thing I don't see as an issue on the subject. I have a PC account (a handful really) and the PC accounts have saved passwords. All it would take is allowing the kid on the PC and him knowing how to put the software on, then launch DC...and I think we are over-estimating how hard it would be to load the software. Most kids know a dozen cheat sites and those that don't know how to use youtube or discord to find what they want.

I know I have nephews/nieces that when visiting, I've allowed on my PC to look at youtube or play some games (DC even once or twice...they were not interested), and my kids have access to the PC anytime they would want. Now I trust them...but could they do the same with a little savvy? Sure.

That all having been said, I don't see them undoing the permaban. It sets a bad precedent on what speed hackers can get away with.

The team has been notoriously opaque on this issue and explicitly explaining they don't discuss it when it comes up to the point most people don't even believe cheaters are banned in this game. We actually don't know what the normal process or precedent is at all to state what would set a bad precedent.

Every game handles it differently. Most games have a 3 strike rule. It looks like our Devs have a zero tolerance policy but who knows? It's anyone's guess. We're hoping they take a more personal and humane approach to it.

While I do not venture in the forums often. You can tell my my numerous posts that are on record. But my leaguemate supersedes my lack of participation. Is it true someone broke a rule, yes. Is it true the development team have consequences in place for situations that need to be dealt with, yes. But as other posters have stated circumstances apply. I brought up the character of my league mate and friend because that is what I know that others may not. The point of us coming to his defense is because we don't want someone to lose something they worked hard for legitimately. He does love the game and the escape it allows him. While I get many only see the potential flood gate of negativity with one being unbanned and not others, I still feel the circumstances surrounding this issue should merit a new look over. If nothing comes of it then I can say I at least did what I could instead of doing nothing at all. It is what my league and friends would do for me and I in turn give them that same commitment.

Ah.. yes.. The circumstance of, "but he's a really nice guy and it totally wasn't him, it was his rebellious nephew (who he wilfully/knowingly allowed to access his account and he was totally acting of his own accord)... And you can take our word on that because the guy who owns the cheating account told us so!"

Yeah... Nah.. every speedhacker I've ever caught red handed has an identical bs story (and is willing to attempt some seriously messed up mental gymnastics to justify their behaviour). Even if it were true, it isn't provable and it doesn't matter. What is provable is that the account cheated and the account wasn't stolen/hacked when it did so. It should be permatoast. The player can start over and not cheat and/or not share their account.