Test Discussion Solar Amplifier Bug

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Batuba, Sep 3, 2020.

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  1. AV Loyal Player

    Except I share videos of sufficient length to demonstrate the average of a thing and my methods are clear such that anyone can check the data for themselves so they know I didn't cook my books like you just did. I don't lie about my numbers and try to pass it off as fact like you just did. You lied. I didn't.

    I literally just caught you in a lie in your last two posts. You provided deliberately falsified data in an attempt to strengthen your argument while simultaneously using methods you knew to be inaccurate. You then admitted that you were well aware that your data was incorrect but you still tried to pass it off as though it was.

    Cool? Again... you just. *******. lied. I would not put it past you to cook your books at this point and those are editable, which is why I'm both pointing your dishonest methods out and giving the you benefit of the doubt to prove that, lying or not, you're still wrong in every way. I would not put it past the kind of person who would do creepy stalker Google searches on someone he doesn't like and who fabricates data to spend the time to falsify records to maintain his status quo. Since you just lied to advance your agenda here, why should anyone not think you may be lying about other things, especially when ad sense is a thing? That's the problem with lying... once that trust is lost it's pretty hard to get back. More than proving that this change would be a mistake, this evaluation has demonstrated that you lack the moral fiber to provide accurate, honest, unbiased feedback.

    Welp.. considering we've both just conclusively demonstrated that you were wrong about this, that'd be a solid way for the devs to shoot themselves in the foot, that's for sure. But since you're still not grasping how wrong you are, let me spell it out. My degree is in aeronautical engineering. This kind of analysis is not challenging. Despite that, you somehow managed to simultaneously oversimplify and overcomplicate your assessment. For lack of any more accurate terms, your methodology was a complete and utter hot ******* disaster of pure anti-science and it showed. You can literally only use your method to check the impact of one artifact... and that artifact isn't Solar Amplifier. You had no idea what you were doing when you got into this, you got your head twisted the wrong way by not knowing how to accurately find or interpret any of the actually relevant information, you lied to the devs by being so overconfident in your demonstrable incompetence in terms of performing this evaluation, and your pride keeps you from ever admitting when you've made a mistake. You are working to actively make the game worse by not caring about the accuracy of your methods and lying about your results. You should not be allowed to provide testing feedback after lying like that.

    Yeah... because we're discussing ST and there are non-stop qualifying statements in there identifying its niche. The AoE is NOT impactful relatively to the field and I literally said "great single target + AoE" which is exactly what it is: great single target with an aoe component to it. Another sick strawman attempt though. Why would I get into the weeds about an aspect of the artifact which we both just separately proved is worse than that same aspect of every other ******* artifact? jfc dude...Also, "one of the best artifacts in the game" is a sweeping, subjective statement. Half the ******* DPS artifacts can be called "one of the best artifacts in the game." This is also hilarious because I anticipated you'd somehow try to twist this exact post to your messed up agenda. Anyways... this is a garbage way for you to try to prove any point.

    To summarize:

    - You have now lied repeatedly
    - Your initial assertions were wrong and Solar Amplifier doesn't outperform other AoE artifacts at all, even in its impossible-to-consistently-achieve best case scenario
    - You lied
    - Your testing methods were demonstrably incorrect for the situation at hand
    - You. lied.
    - Proven wrong, you're resorting to more dishonest strawman behaviour, which I was hoping you could grow out of
    - Ya lied

    I was honestly trying to help your position, man. Ffs.

    If the devs think nerfing an artifact into the ground when two separate serious testers on opposite ends of the debate came up with data proving the same thing, that this wasn't overperforming even in its best case scenario, then they'll deserve the fallout and costs that takes (beyond the toll it's already taking). Your reprehensible "lol too bad it's happening" sentiment also flies directly in the face of the devs' declared ethos in regards to their artifact design philosophy:

    Batuba: It is indeed correct that artifacts are made to provide different play styles. It's our goal to have each play style you've dedicated your self to feel good and last you. New artifacts are about introducing new play-styles or emphasize on existing ones.

    Nerfing an artifact when that artifact isn't even as potent as alternatives in it's best case is the exact opposite of what Batuba claimed in that post. It would literally be murdering a (inferior but fun) playstyle over nothing but your lies. If you think that's a good idea than you're an exceptionally toxic human being. Hopefully the devs are more mature and can admit that this was a mistake in light of the accurate, honest data sourced from sound science and good methodology.
    • Like x 5
  2. Rejchadar Inquisitor

    I honestly do not remember how it was with the splliting of damage with multiple targets on the test server during testing GU97, but I remember that when the Bug where you could move during HV was being fixed, Batuba mentioned that the only change to HV at level 200 is the EC mod ( if you want, you can even find the post itself in the topic about GU97). By the way, I don’t remember a single mention during testing that at level 200 the damage is not splliting (I myself did not test this artifact then, even for myself, due to lack of time ...)

    This is to the question of developer silence ....
    • Like x 1
  3. AV Loyal Player

    That's fair if true. I feel like I did mention it in passing somehow (but can't honestly remember at this point) and I added that qualifying statement because I was reiterating someone else's mentioning of it being pointed out. I know that Obsidian Chill did not consider it a bug at the time.

    Unfortunately, since the 160 split wasn't working correctly that still wouldn't properly indicate the intent one way or another. Most of the 160 behaviour was non-split... so when all of the 200 behaviour ended up being non-split it looked more like either fixing the 160 bugs or a natural progression of the artifact. Pretty much only a single person ever called it a bug prior to this. I expect people are going to react with their wallets (my league mates and I already are), because it looks/feels like a pretty shady unjustifiable nerf in light of all of the facts and evidence.
    • Like x 3
  4. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    The fact that some kind of bug was a fact (I mentioned that one of the 3 bugs is possible), but to be honest, I do not see any particular need for changes that are present on the test server now. At the moment, on the live server, you can pick up a combination of artifacts and rotation without HV, which in an AOE situation will give similar or better results (maybe not for all powers...) ... personally, I would just change the description ...to fix the "bug" ...
    • Like x 1
  5. August Moon Well-Known Player


    How would any player who doesn't have access to the test server know there was a bug? dcuo doesn't contain a live server sandbox mode so what people see on a video or hear from a friend is what they have to go by. You could say "obsidian chill said several times it was bugged " but he still promoted it as if it wasn't , and with not a single dev reaction to the old June bug report post people would think "...yeah its working as intended". almost similar to how impaling thorns in gorilla form doesn't split on 3 targets and splits horribly on 8, the normal consumers idea of "working as intended" gets muddied. And after $220 + catalyst are spent or 6 months of heavy grinding plus catalyst are consumed you take a sledge hammer to the artifact in question?

    Honestly i can get nerfs and buffs, somethings dont work as intended . nothings perfect . But if you're going to drastically change something that a multitude of people have spent either months of nonrefundable time or over $200 bucks on the least you can do is compensate them with something equal to or better . Like how they did when they massacred Neo Wrist Dispenser. All this is doing is severing the trust the consumers have with the team and makes them anxious and paranoid to even put money or time down for something that can and possibly will get changed in the far or near future
    • Like x 7
  6. Vengeance Gray Level 30


    Your statement assumes that it was meant to be on par with the arts you are testing them against.

    For example, your ST testing doesn't include the La-Mort card being swapped in for Solar which is an option, as well as arts like /Dead King, EoG, Philosopher, and Source Shard, that impact Might DPS.

    It would be great if there was more transparency/explanation from the Dev's; however without knowing their intentions, we are only able to either speculate what is overperforming or take them at their word, which I concede at this point in time is questionable.
    • Like x 1
  7. Vengeance Gray Level 30

    I think something that's getting lost is the assumption that the majority of people who play this game know the inner workings of this game. Many, and possibly the majority of players in the game don't know about the forums or test servers, especially non-pc players.

    I've played this game for 8 years and had no idea of how damage split until AV just explained it and I'm considered a good DPS in game.

    Many people pick up the game, get a loadout with no explanation from a video or someone in game, and go about their day not knowing how or why it works.

    I think those assumptions derails this conversation.
    • Like x 1
  8. KN1TE Dedicated Player

    It's not like Venom Wrist, that was nerfed where they changed the actual description and percentage. That was appalling. That was a true bait and switch and the upgrade to 200 was a downgrade. And there wasn't as much outrage, because might players seem to be the majority. They were the loudest voices that got what they wanted. Then it was the weapons next that got nerfed. And elite weapons don't have increased precision stats? Who is getting picked on? Now might is getting a taste of it.

    I personally hate the essential iconics typical loadout on just about every power: Heat Vision, robot sidekick, Neo Venom Boost etc. I like playing different powers for fun. Not to have all different powers with half the loadout the same on each toon to be competitive. That's were La Mort should be equal to Solar Artifact having empowered channeling. Many things could be simplified by making things more similar with slight changes or advantages. Sometimes the artifacts are too drastically out there.

    I don't agree with the change as it's been shown it's not an over performing artifact like others. I don't agree with the nerfing of items once they are live. They should of been tested and tweaked while on test. That's what test is for. But it's long been my belief things just get released broken. It seems to happen every episode and the players have put up with broken content for so long. This is just the continuation of things over and over. There has never been balance. Most don't want it. And there never will be because there are too many variables: Augments, artifacts, skill points, powersets, weapons, generator mods, CR, etc.
    • Like x 1
  9. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    • Warning: The DCUO forums are for everyone. Please be respectful, constructive, and kind. Please welcome contrasting views and stay on topic. Do not insult or attack anyone.
    Some really good info here since batuba tried to feed us a line. Prob an excellent time for a Green name to come address this.
    Communication is key and we want answers/rationale on this and wish to know how the bait n switch will be compensated or how this will be reconciled.
    Ideally they come and admit they listened to bad info and made a mistake an reverse the damage done. At a min, they table this an revisit when they have evaluated good info.
    But no matter what, a green name with actual things to explain an say is prudent here.
    • Like x 4
  10. Pale Rage Dedicated Player

    I couldn't agree more.
    I spent months, and yes, some $, on leveling up a solar amp (3 to be exact). For the artifact to basically become completely useless with any rotation except straight single target, is a hard kick to the groin.
    I, for one, refuse to buy any more marketplace cash until I see what is going to take place with the particular "issue." Should the outcome be the usual, my wallet is remaining closed.

    Communication is a MUST, and is something that I, and many others, have been bringing up for YEARS.
    • Like x 1
  11. KN1TE Dedicated Player

    Why ice was used as an example IDK. I've played Ice the majority of my time on DC. It's the power I tested extensively and the most with league mates and friends to make an under performing power viable. In no situation, did I ever find heat vision as a good option with ice. The SA was for stats only. How it began to catch on to use heat vision was just bad word of mouth. I extensively showed others running an ice heat vision loadout (in raids, alerts, duos) that they were losing damage by using it in their load out.

    Quite a few people don't realize all the possibilities with certain artifacts. That being said, there are better options especially with ice, that benefit more from not having SA at all. I'm sure there are other powers sets that benefit from overlooked artifacts also.

    Like you said...that's not a good ice loadout.

    You also have to take into consideration when someone's main agenda is Elite content only and responds with comments in his own NOToc channel, "who cares about...alert...etc." When you have valid points against nerf batting stuff just because it's over performing in one specific Elite raid. That person is not looking out for the community as a whole, because the majority of the players won't run elite content. It's more about damage and SP chasing and flexing than actually helping other players. Especially when there is a huge bias towards certain things. I question if some load outs are made just for the sake of trolling the community to get all the "noobs" to run around with bad load outs. Some people are just that manipulative to get everyone thinking something they are running is good and is really bad, just so they can flex with something better. Most really, really good DPS won't share what they do and why because they put all the time in on figuring it out. There is a lot of bad info and bad claims or accusations stuff is too overrated etc.

    To confirm: yes, much better iceloadouts. Freezing breath is good...LOL! I don't share my information unless your someone I frequently run with and you ask me. It's what I use and what works for me. And it requires an in depth Dr. Freeze ice degree and discretion LOL! And don't come to me with your inferno, fire named toon asking for an ice load! Common! if your going to be ice get an ice name toon! J.K. no for real.

    Thanks for taking A LOT of time to break things down. You deserve that at least.
    • Like x 1
  12. darry3275 Well-Known Player

    My problem is not with the split damage on the explosion, that's fine, but didn't anyone else notice even in Obsidian Chills video that the damage over time ticks were stronger with the solar at 160? I mean it's already a weak dot, but the dot after the fix is EXTREMELY weak.
  13. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Where are my lies lol? you substituted the rotation I used for another, an impractical one for actual content and then want to say I mislead my results because I used a different rotation? I could have used Light as an example and you would have said the same thing "Well Obsidian you didn't use Chainsaw x5 because that will parse much higher" but wait I forgot you were the one who put HV on Light melee as well, what works on a sparring target isn't always going to work in an actual raid but I don't expect you to know that because everything you do is on test besides Fire. You also cherry picked fire to use as your testing because Fire is already considered one of the top Ranged AOE powers, that is why you can skew your results heavily in favor of a -Solar rotation because Fire already has the proper abilities to be viable without it. Try those results as Rage, Earth, Sorc, Nature using a minus SA rotation and see the dmg % difference.

    You are the one who still hasn't addressed my comment given every opportunity to explain why you think Amplified Heat Vision can be considered balance when it is the number one source of total damage output whenever it's used in a rotation. I showed the full combat breakdown of every test I did and you didn't, it is incredibly easy for you to falsify and use whatever results best fit your objectives because as a "tester" you don't share your testing statistics, you don't share your results. How can I be labelled a liar when I literally have every combat log for each test I did. That is like you cured Covid-19 but instead of sharing what is in the vaccine or how you arrived at the results you just showed a patient who you treated fully recovered :rolleyes: imagine that and you want yourself to be considered credible?

    You'll find the same quote from Batuba where he says Artifacts aren't designed to all be leveled to rank 200 and he wants the artifact to be just as viable at lower ranks. How does that translate to Solar Amplifier? when this much of an increase comes only at rank 200. Funny in none of your tests did you show the damage difference between Rank 160 and Rank 200 of Solar Amplifier, but I guess if I tried to show that data you would just call me a liar again.

    The direction for the game with Solar Amplifier working as is solely at Rank 200 and the notion that players think they can pay money for bugs in this game is abhorrent. We are coming up on almost a year from September 2019 which is when GU:97 came out that changed Doom Spin and that was adjusted 1 month ago. But that was ok because everyone knew Doom Spin was overpowered and despite players buy prec artifacts because prec+doomspin was the meta I don't recall any such ferocity in emotional posts defending it. How about Nature? Nature has been like this since stats revamp in 2017 and as artifacts came out just further amplified what was overpowered with the powerset but it's ok to change that right? There is a word that starts with H that I think readily applies here :rolleyes:

    [IMG]

    it's ok to change nature after years and after players leveled artifacts that work specifically with Nature like SA-Scrap-EoG or paid money to switch Acrobatics for Gorilla, nah that is ok because the overpoweredness was community accepted along with the bugs and now that it's being changed its welcomed because it will bring balance to other powersets. What is more likely is the fact that these players emotionally fighting against the SA changes were precision based dps not so long ago and switched at the doomspin nerf because they knew Prec wouldn't be the most powerful and leveled up SA at the bonus weekend or earlier directly because how powerful it was and now are having buyers remorse.
  14. Proxystar #Perception

    I certainly don't have a horse in this race as I don't use the artifact and was refraining from entering the debate, but wanted to express a level of appreciation for the amount of time, effort and thought you've put in to this particular topic because I think an acknowledgement of that is due. I'm sure many in the community are also thankful whether or not they're saying anything.

    I'm not sure you're going to convince detractors of your viewpoint however; but commend your desire and commitment to continue to attempt to get your point across.

    I've not done any testing of the artifact change and don't intend to do so because the change doesn't impact me, but it does affect many other people I know, I've listened to what they've said and have certainly read the thread and your posts, particularly, with a level of intrigue, before this artifact change was put forward I was on the fence as to whether or not there was an issue as I did see the previous bug thread about it where it was, at least seemingly so, disregarded by the developers as being a bug.

    I did however, feel this was worth saying to the developers as it may still be valid feedback, but from a practical perspective in game I don't see this as particularly or certainly not heavily so leading to a significant level of imbalance, now that might be seen as anecdotal evidence and perhaps that's entirely true, but that being said anecdotal evidence such as practical play experience is still something worth considering; it's not like heat vision users are roaming the server crushing everyone.

    I tend to also sympathise with the viewpoint that this was left for a year with no word and that type of thing will lead to customer discontent, every time, without fail and I do not think those feelings whether or not they're seen as valid should ever be readily dismissed, we're all playing a game for enjoyment however that enjoyment is derived and when customers feel unhappy it should always be acknowledged and never dismissed.

    I certainly don't believe the developers have maliciously set out to deceive people, they do come across as a well intended group of people and this certainly isn't some shady mobile MOBA game :) so they probably just never really saw it as an issue until someone or for some reason felt this was probably a bigger issue than it really is.

    Despite the fact I haven't tested you've certainly laid out the most compelling argument and I felt it was worthwhile me lending my support of your viewpoint in here at the very least even if simply me vocally making post in your support.

    I tend to think the developers should leave this alone, abandon the change and just leave it as it is currently on live. I'd have no problem if they chose to do so, perhaps even update the tooltip and see it as an artifact benefit.

    Thanks again AV for the time you put in to this.
    • Like x 6
  15. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Don't care this time to bold or change colours or text size


    Earth Live Server
    Setup #1 Transformation – Strategist – Solar Amplifier
    Rotation Heat Vision-Upheavalx3-Rumblecrush-Reinforce-RSK
    12,600,855 total 105,007 dmg/s

    [IMG]

    Earth Live Server
    Setup #2 Solar-Strategist-Tetra
    Rotation Heat Vision-Upheavalx3-Rumblecrush-Reinforce-RSK
    11,406,610 total 95,055 dmg/s

    [IMG]

    Earth Live Server
    Setup #3 Solar-Trans-Tetra
    Rotation Heat Vision-Upheavalx3-Rumblecrush-Reinforce-RSK
    10,423,844 total 86,865 dmg/s

    [IMG]

    Earth Live Server
    Setup #4 Trans-Strat-Tetra
    Rumblecrush-Reinforce-Upheavalx3-Freezing Breathx2-RSK
    11,252,786 total 93,773 dmg/s

    [IMG]

    Earth Test Server
    Setup #1 Transformation – Strategist – Solar Amplifier
    Rotation Heat Vision-Upheavalx3-Rumblecrush-Reinforce-RSK
    8,949,904 total 74,583 dmg/s

    [IMG]

    Earth Test Server
    Setup #2 Trans-Strat-Solar (Same Might as Setup #1)
    Rumblecrush-Reinforce-Upheavalx3-Freezing Breathx2-RSK
    9,055,747 total 75,465 dmg/s

    [IMG]

    Earth Test Server
    Setup #3 Trans-Strat-Tetra
    Rumblecrush-Reinforce-Upheavalx3-Freezing Breathx2-RSK
    10,408,800 total 86,740 dmg/s

    [IMG]

    8-Target Summary
    BiS: 12,600,855
    Strat replaced 10,423,844 -> 17.3% DPS loss vs BiS
    Solar replaced: 11,252,786 -> 10.7% DPS loss vs BiS
    Trans replaced: 11,406,610 -> 9.5% DPS loss vs BiS

    BiS After SA Change: 8,949,904
    Non-HV Rotation After SA Change: 9,055,747 -> 1.2% DPS Increase vs BiS After SA Change
    Non-HV Rotation After SA Change with Tetra: 10,408,800 -> 16.3% DPS Increase

    Conclusions:
    • Now were onto Earth with the only change being the largest dps loss seen removing strategist because Earth ranged AOE already has minimal options and depends on the tactical advantage dots to supplement as passive damage
    • You are welcome to point out how terrible my non-HV rotation is and how I mislead the entire community by using it where all I sub out is HV for Freezing Breath because Earth's only other ranged powers are Striking Stones and Debris Field so thought id stick as close a possible to your original rotation to prevent deception and it saw the same marginal increase vs HV but this time I also included running the Tetra because not much point in the SA where with the Ice test I was just trying to keep the might the same and the Tetra rotation saw a 16.3% DPS increase.
    • Which leads me to my next point which you have always left out of your conclusions but I thought I should provide some insight to the community for. You always find removing the Solar Amplifier as the lowest DPS loss because you are subbing in the Tetra which will grant you +/- 10,000 EXTRA MIGHT so what you are telling the community is that for you to see the lowest damage loss in taking off and not using Amplified Heat Vision that player must go out and get 10,000+ extra Might, but you want to say that is completely balanced and working as intended right?
    • Amplified Heat Vision currently on live server is worth more than 10,000 extra might being added to your stats. Why do I know this? because after the SA changes and you don't have Amplified Heat Vision not splitting damage you see a 16.3% increase at least with Earth ranged using the Tetra over the Amplified Heat Vision Rotation.
    • Look at those combat summaries which you won't see on any of AVTV's results
      • Test 1 Amplified Heat Vision accounted for 40.3% TOTAL DAMAGE
      • Test 2 Amplified Heat Vision accounted for 44.4% TOTAL DAMAGE
      • Test 3 Amplified Heat Vision accounted for 57.5% TOTAL DAMAGE
    • Now that SA was changed on test in the same rotation now Amplified Heat Vision accounts for 22.3% total damage which is less than Upheaval and Tactical Advantage procs and only 10% more dmg than Rumlecrush
    • Yet somehow I am a pathological liar and deceiving you all telling you that the Solar Amplifier at Rank 200 is clearly over performing yet somehow AVTV will say that I am lying because as long as you have 10,000+ extra might to add to your stats you won't see that much of a drop off not using Amplified Heat Vision :rolleyes:
  16. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Your really trying to compare a broken power ppl did NOT pay $ for and to an art that got silence from the devs when asked if it was broken For over a year and we did pay all that time an $ for? Bro you need to go sit in the corner an think things over. Thats not even apples an oranges man. Thats apples an chicken smh.
    Dont even try that BS, your caveat about “buyin precision arts” is also not even in the same ballpark as precision arts are not to just buff doomspin as your attempting to suggest, they’d be buffing other prec powers too. SA buffs HV (by 10%) not all iconics, not all might, not all anything. JUST HV.
    Say something productive or constructive if your going to say something but dont try an feed us these BS comparrisons that are fully unrelated.
    I dont know the X’s an O’s like you and AV seem to but even I can smell that BS a mile away.
    Devs ignored the claims openly for over a year an were happy taking our time an $ (tell me they didnt). Despite numerous claims it was broken they chose to NOT communicate or acknowledge (tell me they did an show me the post). Its too late for them to now call this a bug an nerf the crap out of it just to attempt to sell a dif art. (You may buy their BS but we dont). thats the issue here for alot of us.
    You and AV can debate all you want about weather or not its broken an thats fine (its insiteful actually) but no one needs your imaginary comparrisons that dont correlate.
    Pro tip: kissing dev behind wont get you anywhere with the community. Especially when the devs are pulling this deceitful shady move.
    • Like x 3
  17. Pinky Well-Known Player

    I see where both ObsidianChill and AVTV are coming from.

    Let me summarise for those trying to make sense of AVTV's and ObsidianChill's posts.

    AVTV is saying that Solar Amplifier's DPS contribution from an AOE standpoint will be dramatically nerfed after the change.

    ObsidianChill is saying that Solar Amplifier is a ST artifact and was never meant to be an AOE artifact in the first place.
    Because Solar Amplifier's DPS contribution from an AOE standpoint is abnormally large, accounting for 50% of all AOE damage produced, Solar Amplifier has become prevalent in not only all ST might builds, but all AOE might builds as well. This AOE contribution is so large, that it affected virtually all might builds across all powersets. Amplified Heat Vision changed from being Single Target only (the original Heat Vision) to becoming a SUPER STRONG AOE dps power at Rank 200. Its like using a totally new power, only under a similar name.

    While I see where AVTV is coming from, I have to agree with ObsidianChill here.

    For the good of the game, from a balance standpoint, if we want competitive might dps-ing to NOT have a MANDATORY Solar Amplifier build in it, the SUPER STRONG AOE Contribution of Solar Amplifier has to go.

    The Solar Amplifier morphed from a decent ST Artifact at lowers ranks to become not only the best ST Artifact in game, but also one of the best AOE Artifacts in the game at Rank 200.

    After the change, the Solar Amplifier will still a good ST Artifact, but will no longer be such a SUPER STRONG AOE DPS Artifact, contributing virtually 50% of all AOE dps damage WHEN AMPLIFIED HEAT VISION is used in the AOE rotation.
    • Like x 5
  18. Gassius_Spray Loyal Player

    Well I certainly cannot recall players sinking money solely into maxing precision arts just to buff up dual pistols, rifle, hand blasters, ma etc. Tons of money was poured in to prec arts for DWFS, doom spin and can make a case for explosive shot and bow smoke bomb. even then it was the doom spin and flurry shot ballet 90% of the time.

    Sure that luxury was/is there with maxed out prec arts to use any weapon with them, but come on... it was for dwfs and doom spin primarily. What the devs intend and what the community does is something else.
    • Like x 1
  19. Proxystar #Perception

    Perhaps I'm wrong. but from what I understand, AVTV is saying that even if you accepted the argument that Solar Amplifier does significant AOE damage it's actually still inferior to other artifact combinations if your goal is AOE.

    This raises the prospect of whether there's any practical sense in nerfing something that's already inferior, it begs the question why?

    It seems clear to me and again, I'm open to being wrong, but perhaps people are simply using Solar Amplifier consistently not because its superior but because it's convenient, it sufficiently does both ST and AOE and given how cost/time prohibitive artirfacts are it makes sense to level the solar and just the solar rather than an additional artifact just for doing AOE or ST when necessary.

    With that being the case it, at least again for me anyway, begs the question as to how this change benefits the player community, all I see it resulting in is might based players leveling some other artifact to deal with AOE (which they could already be doing anyway) while retaining Solar for ST and switching between them when necessity requires it where they'd at present otherwise just be able to make do with Solar - if that is indeed the case why are people wanting this change and inflicting unnecessary work upon themselves. :confused::)

    That might mean Solar is no longer a mandatory artifact for AOE but it likely remains so for ST and some other best in slot artifact will just fall into the AOE slot so if the goal of this nerf was to achieve flexibility I'm genuinely not quite sure how it realistically achieves that; but like I said no skin off my nose.
    • Like x 3
  20. Pinky Well-Known Player

    In this case, the flexibility we see here is the flexibility to choose to use other DPS artifacts for an AOE situation.

    Not a benefit from a player's perspective, but I see it as a plus for the game's longevity because players do not get shoehorned into levelling a one-size-fits all kind of artifact.

    The bigger plus is that players are no longer forced to use Solar Amplifier for AOE situations when Heat Vision was originally a Single Target power. Solar Amplifier's bonus AOE damage at rank 120 was meant to be a small bonus for that rank, not a GIGANTIC BUFF essentially making it a whole new AOE power.

    Solar Amplifier behaviour and damage at lower ranks are consistent with it retaining Heat Vision as a major Single Target power used for Single Target situations, never was it meant to be a whole new AREA FLATTENING AOE power at Rank 200. The bonus explosion damage at rank 120 was consistently small (meaning splitting normally) with a rank 120 bonus. If the bonus explosion damage was meant to be significantly bigger (meaning non-split) at Rank 200, it would be stated so in the Artifact Description at Rank 200, consistent with major Artifact gameplay altering effects.
    • Like x 1
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