Balance Legends Initiative

Clutch is an outlier though. Only guy who challenges him is Doctor Wixxer.

they dont care about pvp sadly

Amon Sur

• Construct Whirlwind - Make it that when you JC it, you can clip to other combos or power instead of you being stuck or you need to use a soder/breakout trinket.
• Shatter - First suggestion, make it a instant hit 360 AoE power loadout that hits, and knockbacks 8 enemies, and split after 2. The damage would need to be lowered down to 220-300 and the interrupt would need to be removed. Second suggestion, lower cast time to 1.50 second and remove the interrupt on it. Third suggestion, lower cast time to 1.75 second, keep the interrupt or make it blockable, make it a AoE finisher that deals more damage to enemies with 35% or lower hp, (like Wonder Woman).

Arkillo

• Decrease HP to 6224 from 6552, same HP as Kilowog.
• Construct Jackhammer - Applies a Daze PI for first hit only, decrease CD to 6 seconds from 8 seconds, and mitigate 75% damage during each combo usage. First 2 combos is free of power cost, if a target has the PI.
• Saw Throw - Increase CD to 4 seconds from 1 second. Applies a Daze PI, that deals an extra 30% damage from this loadout, if the targets have the PI.
• Spike Clap - Increase CD to 5 seconds from 3.5 seconds. Applies a Daze PI, gives immunity to CC for 2.5 seconds, if the target has the PI.
• Ring Beam - Make the damage and the ticks like Saint Walker's Purposeful Strike. Also, increase Power cost to 250 from 150 and increase CD to 8 seconds from 1 second.
• Battle Roar - Make it hit 3 ticks instead of 2 ticks like Bane, Atrocitus, Kilowog, etc.
• Swoop Attack - Deals extra damage to helpless enemies.

Bizarro

• Freeze Vision - Remove the interrupt, don't give it any damage mitigation because he already has 3 power that does that.
• Heat Breath - Remove the interrupt, don't give it any damage mitigation because he already has 3 power that does that.

Cheetah

• Feral Lunge - Increase damage to 220-300 from 220-260

Deathstroke

• This guy needs so much revamp/buff that I won't even bother with him.

General Zod

• Freeze Breath - Remove the interrupt, give it immunity to CC's, and absorb 25% damage. Like heat vision.
• Shockwave Punch - Applies a Crushing PI, that deals an extra 30% damage from this loadout, if the target has the PI.
• Swoop Attack - Applies a Crushing PI, that heals 5 ticks of 30-40 health per tick, if the target has the PI.
• Kryptonian Grenade Toss - Decrease CD to 6 seconds from 8 seconds. Applies a Crushing PI, only 1 of your next melee/range/power attacks will do an extra 75% damage (last for 3 seconds), also returns 10-20 power per tick for 3 ticks, if the target has the PI.

Hal Jordan

• Increase HP from 5897 to 6552.
• Strafing Jet - Increase the ticks to 6 from 3 ticks for the dot.
• Swoop Attack - Deals extra damage to helpless enemies and use-able while controlled.

John Stewart

• Increase HP from 5242 to 5897.
• Swoop Attack - Deals extra damage to helpless enemies.

Kilowog

• Jackhammer - Applies a Daze PI first hit only, decrease CD to 6 seconds from 8 seconds, and mitigate 75% damage during each combo usage. First 2 combos is free of power cost, if a target has the PI.
• Ram - Increase CD to 4 seconds from 1 second. Applies a Daze PI, that deals an extra 30% damage from this loadout, if the targets have the PI.
• Ground Spike - Applies a dot that deals 10-30 damage per tick for 4 ticks, if the target has the PI.
• Construct Clap - Decrease CD to 5 seconds from 6 seconds. Applies a Daze PI, gives immunity to CC for 2.5 seconds, if the target has the PI.
• Swoop Attack - Deals extra damage to helpless enemies.

Kyle Rayner

• Lantern Ward - Reduce the damage of this loadout to 20-40 per tick, increase the 4 ticks to 11 ticks. While you or an ally stands in the range of the AoE, you all get a buff of: restoring 5-10 power per tick, 25% damage absorbtion, and increase all damage (for melee/range and other damaging loadouts, except this one) by 5% during the 11 ticks. (Non-Stackable Buffs)

Nightwing

• Clink - Applies a dot that deals 10-30 damage per tick for 4 ticks.

Power Girl

• Whirlwind Attack - Make it hit up to 8 enemies and split damage after 2 enemies.
• Freeze Breath - Remove the interrupt, give it immunity to CC's, and absorb 25% damage. Like heat vision.
• Knockout Kick - Increase CD to 8 seconds from 4 seconds and increase power cost to 275 from 150. Applies a Crushing PI, grants an extra power combo when holding melee (blockable, cone attack, can hit up to 3 targets, splits after 1 target, and deals extreme damage when targets are below 35% health).
• Shockwave Stomp - Applies a Crushing PI, that deals an extra 30% damage from this loadout, if the target has the PI.
• Swoop Attack - Applies a Crushing PI, that heals 5 ticks of 30-40 health per tick, if the target has the PI.

Saint Walker

• Salvo of Adara - Make it 8 enemies without splitting.
• Purposeful Strike - Reduce CD to 9 seconds from 25 seconds.
• Temperance - Reduce the damage of this loadout to 20-40 per tick, increase the 4 ticks to 11 ticks. While you or an ally stands in the range of the AoE, you all get a buff of: restoring 5-10 power per tick, 25% damage absorbtion, and increase all damage (for melee/range and other damaging loadouts, except this one) by 5% during the 11 ticks. (Non-Stackable Buffs)
• Hope - Reduce CD from 300 to 180.
• Increase HP from 5242 to 5569.

Sinestro

• Increase HP from 5569 to 6224.
• Fear Trap - applies a small dot that deals 10-30 damage per tick for 4 ticks.

Steel

• Increase HP from 5242 to 5569.
• Hammer Drop - Change it from cone attack to a 360 AoE attack. Make hit 8 targets and splits after 2.
• Atom Splitter - First Suggestion, remove the interrupt on it, increase CD to 6 seconds from 5 seconds, decrease damage to 95-125 per tick from 110-150 per tick (max tick is 6), and increase power cost from 175 to 200. Second Suggestion, increase tick damage to 220-300 from 110-150 per tick, and decrease 6 ticks to 3 ticks.
• Prototype Protective Barrier - Increase max absorb from 1652 to 2500.

Superman

• Super Breath - Knockdown + Roots up to 8 enemies for 2 seconds.
• Vacuum Spin - Applies a Crushing PI, that reduce 75% damage for 2 seconds, if the target has the PI.
• Shockwave Punch - Decrease CD to 4 seconds from 6 seconds. Applies a Crushing PI, that deals an extra 30% damage from this loadout, if the target has the PI.
• Swoop Attack - Applies a Crushing PI, that heals 5 ticks of 30-40 health per tick, if the target has the PI.
• Freeze Breath - Remove the interrupt, give it immunity to CC's, and absorb 25% damage. Like heat vision.

Ursa

• Heatbutt - Increase CD to 7 seconds from 4 seconds and increase power cost to 275 from 150. Applies a Crushing PI, grants an extra power combo when holding melee (blockable, single target, and deals extreme damage when the target is below 35% health).
• Jump Kick - Change it to hitting 8 targets and splits after 2. Applies a Crushing PI, that deals an extra 30% damage from this loadout, if the target has the PI.
• Swoop Attack - Applies a Crushing PI, that heals 5 ticks of 30-40 health per tick, if the target has the PI.
• Freeze Breath - Remove the interrupt, give it immunity to CC's, and absorb 25% damage. Like heat vision.

The Daze/Crushing PI

• Each PI should last for about 6 seconds.
• If the PI is used from a loadout, then the PI would need to be re-applied from a PI-able power.
• PI Buffs cannot be activated from same loadouts. For example, using Arkillo's Construct Jackhammer Daze PI should not give the power cost free for the first 2 combo if the PI was given from Construct Jackhammer.
• PI Buffs can only be activated from 2 different loadouts. For example, using Arkilo's Saw Throw then using Construct Jackhammer will activate the PI's Buff of power cost free for the first 2 combo.

Here's an updated version of my suggestions. Sorry for not putting any colors on the name of the Legend's Toon, I got lazy.
If I made any typos/mistakes or something that doesn't make sense I am sorry. If something is too underpower or overpower please post a comment about it.
Thank you for reading this!! LET'S KEEP THIS THREAD GOING PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!

How do you rank batman mid tier? I will not lose using Batman. It is maybe the person using him that is mid tier. I give this tread a 2.

I use Batman and challenge any one of these so called top tier legends characters.

You can never balance anything based on a player versus player experience. That is actually how you create imbalance. It's why John Stewart got nerfed into one of the worst legends in the game and steel was able to remain OP for so long. If you're beating any of these top tier characters with Batman the person using them isn't using them properly.

News flash: Your score doesn't matter.

Your experience is not the ONLY experience. Plain and simple. That's why John was hella nerfed, because some people don't know how to counter.

Thanks to Master Play we've got a discussion about how viable Deathstroke is in a 2v2 situation. So I'd like to pose the question, what would make him better?

I always thought a low health, high burst assassin would make sense. But we got a high health, low/average burst toon instead.

Altering his power consumption and attach some form of effect for a successful KO with his finisher. And I love DCUO so do something about the tray abilities in stealth. They're nearly worthless.

His precision combos need to be clipped too. It's just too much animation time. And shock staff needs a faster animation as well. It's a waste if power since it's dodgeable.

So Spytle just said something on FNL that, I'm sorry to say, got to me. He was thanking the Hope Brothers during their Finals match because they picked characters we don't see often in FNL.

Spytle, all due respect, do you know why that is? Do you realize that Wonder Woman and Lex Luthor are among the best legends toons in the game? There's a reason you see many more of those two than you would Superman or Saint Walker.

Luthor: High health, high burst
WW: High health, average burst, finisher.

Superman: high health, but low burst
Saint: low health, low damage overall

I could not resist saying something after I heard that comment. I'm sorry if this comes off the wrong way. But even when you held the Kryptonian FNL, the most common team was Bizarro and Supergirl, why? Because they are the best Kryptonians, unlike Superman, who is low tier despite being one of the most (if not the most) powerful DC Comic book characters. Which is a shame. I hope if you (Spytle) read this, you will pass it along to DevDirt and Tunso if you want to see more "uniqueness" in FNL.

Lex Luthor and Bane (High Tier) vs
Power Girl and Saint Walker (Low Tier)

Luthor: High health, above average burst, HB's weapon
Bane: High health, average burst, SC for survivability, safest damage out of most legends

Saint Walker: Low health, low damage, low burst
Power Girl: High health, low burst, not much safe damage

Keep in mind Bane has the best safe damage in legends actually.

Edited the comments to say so

The new Area 51 Legends PVE got me playing a lot more Kilowog and Arkillo than usual. Whenever I used Jackhammer, it made me really sad at how weak it is compared to Bizarro's Annihilate. I'd rather see those lantern powers buffed to include damage reduction than to just increase the health of the Legend altogether. I don't think more health for weak characters at all times is interesting. Something where you must manage your power to best take advantage of it makes for deeper play options.

As for Wonder Woman's lasso, my pet peeve in PvP is people who run off their nodes after a knockout to chase down every damn healing barrel on the map. I don't mind quickly losing a match, but there's no reason to drag them out by leaving the node if you're dominating. With Wonder Woman, my favorite move is jerking them off the node then pounding them just off the edge of the restoration AOE. The best is when I get them to drop the barrel with the lasso, hit it myself instead while they're stunned, and them knock them out--so that they only lost the fight because of the barrel they brought onto the node.

It's amazing how fast barrel chasers can be trained to stay on the node and fight, if you punish them each time they waste the opportunity to earn points.

More often than not I actually crowd control them and pick the barrel up and steal it for myself. It works great if I've already got another barrel going as well because that just means double the fun.

I'd like jackhammer to work off of a PI from one of the lantern characters more pointless powers so it suddenly has a reason to be used.

Talking about balance: Next fnl is Lantern themed, it made me reflect: the worst two families of legends are Lanterns and Kriptonians. It makes me think that devs don't like ET's

1 - From lantern family we have some good characters like Kyle (5,8k health, shield, good burst, AoE oriented damage), Amon (6,2k health, good burst, pet and dot, and one useless skill, single target oriented damage), Sinestro (high burst, 5,5k health, I think it should be at 5,8k at least, single target oriented damage), Atro (5,5k health, good healing supercharge, good burst, single target oriented damage) and Hal Jordan (5,8k health, good counter punishment around 2,5k damage, both AoE and single target potential, he maybe deserves a slight health increase to 6,2k). And the worst part are:

• Guy Gardner: 5,8k health, shield. The whole point about him is spam skills, do a lot of taps and wait for counter opportunity. He has a good loadout, but his weapon (two handed) needs a buff.
• Killowog: 6,2k health, low burst, slow skills animations. A damage improvement would help him.
• Arkillo: 6,5k health, low burst, the worst finisher in legends (it hits in AoE, and the damage splits a lot, even if all the targets are bellow 35%). A damage improvement would help him.
• Saint Walker: 5,2k health, average damage, good finisher. A health increase to 5,8-6,2k would help him.
• John Stewart: He got the unfair nerf hammer on him. 5,2k health, shield, good burst. But he needs a health buff, I think 5,8k suits fine.

2 - From kriptonian family we have some good characters like Bizarro (5,8k health, good burst, AoE oriented damage, damage mitigation) Supergirl (5,8k health, amazing damage potential after a counter, AoE and single damage potential) and Lex (6,5k health, good survavility, amazing single target burst, actually he needs a nerf to balance him). And the worst part are:

Less worst:

• Zod: 6,2k health, average damage. Neither good, neither bad.
• Ursa: 6,2k health, average damage. Neither good, neither bad. The point about her is her speed of attack, it may gives and false impression that she's quite good.

Worst:

• Steel: 5,2k health. UWC shield. His health needs a buff to 5,8k, and his weapon (two handed) needs a buff as well.
• Powergirl: 6,5k health. Low damage. Due the broken cc its a nightmare get out of her skill 4 (Whirlwind attack). In the past she was the worst legends alt of all time. She needs a damage improvement.
• Superman: 6,5k health. Low damage. Nothing more to say, he's awful. Needs a damage buff.

And the Golden Raspberry Awards of worst legends goes to:
Saint Walker? Superman? Killowog? Powergirl?

For some reason I can't snip this....

First, thanks for keeping the thread going.

Second, Raspberry goes to Saint Walker. I'd pick Superman over him any day. At least superman's problem is low burst and lack of coolness.

Third, Lantern Legends FNL. Amon, Kyle, Sinestro, and Atrocitus. 4 out of 9 lanterns that are viable for use in FNL. Only chance we'll get of seeing any other lanterns is if the Hope Brothers (or whoever is in the Finals) decide to be "unique".

DCUO Legends PVP: Shazam vs Luthor:


I admit I could've done better. But here's what fighting the current Shazam looks like.

3k damaging SC
Teleport that has an 8 sec cooldown and 3 seconds of 100% damage mitigation

Recycled powers:
Teleport (Circe/Lex)
Finisher (Supergirl)
Healing (Donna Troy; Weaker Version)

It's worth noting this was my first match using him to actually fight outside of testing. I was also laying down and eating pretzels while playing this. I'll upload another match in a few minutes where I tried for the first half then got bored and started goofing off and still won. For now here's this:



Also keep in mind Shaw and I both suffer some framerate lag when recording so that messes things up for us a bit.